Are stat modifiers really bonus + 1/2 per level?

[Alnag]

Ability check will be no more. Or at least not in the form we remember.

The ability score will suffice for that... somehow. Either as a form of DC of an ("Saving Throw") or number of rounds or whatever... or just comparing the ability to do something. Or using the score as a bonus (as with 1st level hitpoints).

The modifiers will be always increased by 1/2 level for it is easier that way.

 

[Peter LaCara]

I think there's a difference between "Dexterity," "Dexterity Score," and "Dexterity Modifier."

Dexterity Score is the 3-18 score you have for your character. Dexterity Modifier is the initial bonus you get from that score. Just "Dexterity" is that modifier plus half your level.

Let's say you have a Dexterity Score of 16 at 6th level. When you use Deft Strike, you roll your "Dexterity vs AC," which is 1d20+3(.5 level)+3(Dexterity Modifier). Then you do 1[W]+3 (Dexterity Modifier).

To support this evidence, I cite the Pit Fiend and Spine Devil's half level bonus not being added in with their strength in their attacks, and also to keep things like Positioning Strike from getting too out of hand.

 

[PeelSeel2]

I think there's a difference between "Dexterity," "Dexterity Score," and "Dexterity Modifier."

Dexterity Score is the 3-18 score you have for your character. Dexterity Modifier is the initial bonus you get from that score. Just "Dexterity" is that modifier plus half your level.

Let's say you have a Dexterity Score of 16 at 6th level. When you use Deft Strike, you roll your "Dexterity vs AC," which is 1d20+3(.5 level)+3(Dexterity Modifier). Then you do 1[W]+3 (Dexterity Modifier).

To support this evidence, I cite the Pit Fiend and Spine Devil's half level bonus not being added in with their strength in their attacks, and also to keep things like Positioning Strike from getting too out of hand.

I think you are dead-on with that point.

 

[3d6]

I actually think that you do add 1/2 your level to your ability score modifiers, and that this essentially replaces base attack bonus and save bonuses, as well as a level bonus to damage rolls we've seen in Star Wars Saga Edition.

For example, positioning strike, which was listed in the first post, says that the attack is "Dexterity vs. Will". This could mean that you make an attack roll using Dexterity to modify your base attack bonus and other modifiers, but, given that a character could reasonably have powers based on many different ability scores, it seems as though you would have a need to have six spaces on your character sheet for your various attack bonuses, which seems unwieldy. I believe that it is simply a Dexterity check against the target's Will Defense. There would actually be a lot of design elegance in just adding 1/2 your level to ability score modifiers -- you've essentially incorporated the 1/2 level bonus to attack rolls, defenses, and damage rolls into a single calculation. I don't think this would negatively impact verisimilitude, given a system where adventurers already have a level of omni-competence due to the 1/2 level being added to all skill checks. A 30th-level wizard kicking down the door isn't particularly odd when he already has a +15 bonus to all skills, whether he uses them or not.

 

[Cam Banks]

We've already been informed that all characters will have the same base attack and defense progression, and that it's all based on 1/2 character level. I think 1/2 level will be the universal modifier, coupled with an ability score modifier when necessary. For convenience, these are added together for stat blocks.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Terramotus]

I think there's a difference between "Dexterity," "Dexterity Score," and "Dexterity Modifier."

Dexterity Score is the 3-18 score you have for your character. Dexterity Modifier is the initial bonus you get from that score. Just "Dexterity" is that modifier plus half your level.

Let's say you have a Dexterity Score of 16 at 6th level. When you use Deft Strike, you roll your "Dexterity vs AC," which is 1d20+3(.5 level)+3(Dexterity Modifier). Then you do 1[W]+3 (Dexterity Modifier).

To support this evidence, I cite the Pit Fiend and Spine Devil's half level bonus not being added in with their strength in their attacks, and also to keep things like Positioning Strike from getting too out of hand.

Aren't you forgetting BAB in there? The trend towards simplification makes me really doubt that they're having Dexterity mean something different from Dexterity Score and Dexterity Modifier.

I think Dexterity vs AC is more like 1d20 + BAB + Dex Mod, which comes out to the same numbers you just posted in the above example, but uses different terminology and doesn't add a new definition for a derived stat. I strongly suspect that any abilities that require the 1/2 level added will simply have that built in to the activity and that Stat Mod will remain the definition that we know and love.

 

[Peter LaCara]

Aren't you forgetting BAB in there? The trend towards simplification makes me really doubt that they're having Dexterity mean something different from Dexterity Score and Dexterity Modifier.

I think Dexterity vs AC is more like 1d20 + BAB + Dex Mod, which comes out to the same numbers you just posted in the above example, but uses different terminology and doesn't add a new definition for a derived stat. I strongly suspect that any abilities that require the 1/2 level added will simply have that built in to the activity and that Stat Mod will remain the definition that we know and love.

No. There is no more BAB. Attacks are probably going to be "Ability" or skill vs defense. There is no need for BAB in that kind of model.

 

[DreamChaser]

Aren't you forgetting BAB in there? The trend towards simplification makes me really doubt that they're having Dexterity mean something different from Dexterity Score and Dexterity Modifier.

I think Dexterity vs AC is more like 1d20 + BAB + Dex Mod, which comes out to the same numbers you just posted in the above example, but uses different terminology and doesn't add a new definition for a derived stat. I strongly suspect that any abilities that require the 1/2 level added will simply have that built in to the activity and that Stat Mod will remain the definition that we know and love.

Actually, we know from the shorthand in the rogue description that Dexterity vs. X attacks are commonplace (at least for rogues). Since there is no functional difference between "d20 + BAB (1/2 level) + Dex Mod" and "d20 + Dexterity (1/2 level + Dex Mod) and the latter is more elegant in in keeping with the idea that "attacks" can be based upon a variety of sources, I'm leaning in that direction.

So the ability score section of the character sheet could look something like:

Stat Name [SCORE] [MOD] [TOTAL]

And then down under the "attacks" section, you could list a weapon as being Dex +2 (for being a +2 bow) and this would make sense. BAB becomes irrelevant.

DC

 

[Sphyre]

Just "Dexterity" is that modifier plus half your level.

I think all attacks are going to have the following rules:

• You roll a d20
• You add your BAB (or half your char level, since they are all standardized now)
• You add an ability modifier
• You add any other bonuses, such as the rogue's weapon talent or enhancement bonuses

Then you compare it to

• An enemy defense and refer to the power to determine results

Since different powers have different ability modifiers that modify them, attack different defenses and have different effects, each power is written in a format to tell you each variable in the attack equation.

Thus:

Crimson Edge
Rogue Attack 9
You deal your enemy a vicious wound that continues to bleed, and like a shark, you circle in for the kill.

Daily * Martial, Weapon
Standard Action
Melee weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding a light blade.
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. Fortitude

Hit: 2[W] + Dexterity modifier damage, and the target takes ongoing damage equal to 5 + your Strength modifier and grants combat advantage to you (save ends both).
Miss: Half damage, and no ongoing damage.

Dexterity tells you which of the abilities applies to the attack roll, Fortitude tells you which defense you compare your result to, and Hit and miss tell you the effects of the result. "Dexterity vs Fortitude" is short hand for saying "This is an attack roll that uses dexterity to modify the chance to hit as opposed to a different stat, and is compared to the Fortitude defense in terms of determining success or failure of the attack."

Hit obviously meaning your attack roll succeeded at matching the defense, while Miss means you failed to overcome the defense.



In fact, this is how I thought it would go since the Paladin smite article. It seemed to me that allowing specific attacks to draw off different ability scores divorced any one stat from being key for a certain function.

 

[Steely Dan]

It also seems that all classes might be a little MAD now (not that way), which is a good thing, IMO.