Are there good Necros out there?

[Flame Draconion]

How many people have encountered or just been a touch annoyed with DM's and actual prc for anythine Necromancers having to be evil? I bring this up b/c i have been annoyed that none of my dms will allow a good necromancer. But if you think along the lines of the Necromancers from Diablo they have to be good b/c of the power they use. I forget the actual word for word description, but even in the books the necros are good. Do you guys that manage to get good necros ignore the alignment req. for the prcs? Which leads to the topic question "Are there good Necromancers out there?"

 

[Strutinan]

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[Cabral]

Check out Eberron and Book of Exalted Deeds for good "Undead" as well as Forgotten Realms (Good elven liches). The first two introduce a new Type, Deathless, animated by Positive Energy as opposed to the Negative Energy that powers Undead. Deathless are turned by anyone who can rebuke undead and rebuke by anyone who can turn undead. In addition, they are healed by heal and harmed by harm.

The eberron book doesn't present any deathless "necromancers" but the clerics with the Deathless domain can create deathless. And the elves of Eberron worship deathless ancestors who "live" in a city-shrine.

 

[Lord Wyrm]

Ran a lawful good Necromancer one time, everytime he raised someone as an undead of any sort he would get their permission using a varient Speak with Dead.

 

[hero4hire]

I believe the Necromancers of Hollowfaust in Scarred Lands generally arent evil. The abhor intelligent undead, but use mindless undead as labor/tools.

 

[Sigurd]

Ran a lawful good Necromancer one time, everytime he raised someone as an undead of any sort he would get their permission using a varient Speak with Dead.

That is the first working solution to not making them slaves.

Hollowfaust is the sort of specialilzed case that might warrant a good specialized necromancer.


Aside from the above.

Raising the dead is pretty clearly an evil act. You don't offer them much of a 'life', according to many beliefs you damn their souls, and you do so without regard for their wishes. I think it is consistent to say that a class dedicated to raising the dead is going to be evil.

I don't think all necromancy is evil. A spellcaster can use necromancy and keep their alignment if they are careful but I think it is a reasonable judgement to say that focus upon it creates evil in the caster.

The best approach I've seen is the Ravenloft necromancer that may be good but is understood to be wrestling with the alignment change. The class even hints that the hero is doomed at level 20 to be the puppet of what they oppose.

Sigurd

 

[Greg K]

I had a good NPC necromancer in my game. For most of the campaign, he was a "bogeyman" trapped in another dimension. All that was known about him were the cautionary tales and bedtime stories derived from the accounts of those wizards that had imprisoned him.
Towards the end of the campaign, the players were paranoid. They were unsure if their characters were preventing his return or actually returning him into the world. The players were definitely surprised to learn that he was actually good and unresponsible for all the "signs" heralding his return.

 

[Aeric]

I'm currently co-DMing an Eberron game where one of the PCs is a neutral True Necromancer. Inspired by the Deathless (he is an elf), he is trying to find a way to use positive energy to fuel necromantic spells and effects. He's almost 11th level and has yet to actually animate any dead (he plans to next session) and has only summoned undead in combat once or twice. Both the other DM and I feel that he has done a good job in walking the line of neutrality so far. He has good goals but it willing to do pretty much anything to acheive them.

Raising the dead is pretty clearly an evil act. You don't offer them much of a 'life', according to many beliefs you damn their souls, and you do so without regard for their wishes.

That's assuming the character believes that is what he is doing. In my campaign, for example, the necromancer views skeletons and zombies as mindless constructs, no more evil than an endtable subject to an Animate Object spell. He won't create anything more advanced than that, so he gets to keep his non-evil alignment. That doesn't mean that the magic itself isn't evil, just that the character isn't automatically evil for doing so.

For the record, I haven't been able to find a definite answer as to the true nature of undead, specifically "mindless" undead. Some sources claim that the body is controlled by an evil spirit, while others say it is an extension of the necromancer's will. A few have claimed that it is the spirit of the body's original owner. I suppose the authors may have left the question open for debate on purpose, to add some mystery to the game, but somehow I doubt it. :\

 

[Cabral]

For the record, I haven't been able to find a definite answer as to the true nature of undead, specifically "mindless" undead. Some sources claim that the body is controlled by an evil spirit, while others say it is an extension of the necromancer's will. A few have claimed that it is the spirit of the body's original owner. I suppose the authors may have left the question open for debate on purpose, to add some mystery to the game, but somehow I doubt it. :\

Libris Mortis (WoTC) would probably be a good source for this, but from what I have available, "Undead are once-living creatures animated by spiritual or supernatural forces." (MM 3.5 p 317) "Unliving corpses - corrupt mockeries of life and purity - are inherently evil. Creating them is one of the most heinous crimes against the world that a character can commit." (Book of Vile Darkness p 8) Undead are bolstered by negative energy which "makes [the world] a darker and more evil place." (BoVD p 8)

 

[Aeric]

Libris Mortis (WoTC) would probably be a good source for this, but from what I have available, "Undead are once-living creatures animated by spiritual or supernatural forces." (MM 3.5 p 317) "Unliving corpses - corrupt mockeries of life and purity - are inherently evil. Creating them is one of the most heinous crimes against the world that a character can commit." (Book of Vile Darkness p 8) Undead are bolstered by negative energy which "makes [the world] a darker and more evil place." (BoVD p 8)

Of those descriptions, only the one from the BOVD says anything specific about what animates the undead. "Spiritual or supernatural forces?" Still pretty vague. The MM says it is evil and a crime against the world, but not specifically why.

I believe it said in LM that undead act as a conduit for the Negative Material Plane to siphon energy away from the Prime Material Plane, making undead something of an ecological hazard. That's how I'm playing it in my campaign currently.

Sentient undead are, in my mind, unquestionably evil. They're either someone trapped in a rotting shell. their souls chipped away at by the Negative energy which sustains them, or an evil spirit making a mockery of the original person whose corpse it inhabits. Either way, bad news for the living. Not so much for mindless undead, except for the aforementioned ecological hazard. Unless ordered to, skeletons and zombies won't do anything. You could have them serve soup at the homeless shelter or help old ladies cross the street. These would be good acts, if rather disturbing ones.