Are Undead Scary?

[StupidSmurf]

Hmmm...I tend to think that undead in 3.5 are more deadly. Like everything else in the game, undead now have far more options, which makes it easy for sick DMs like me to wreak havoc on parties (not to be confused with wreaking havoc AT parties).

Por examplo, our current Forgotten Realms campaign centers around a ghost who brought the party together to fetch something that he cannot, since the area is warded against undead. Of course, when the party was first recruited, they had no idea he was a ghost. They do now. They are not pleased.

Fact is, a ghost brought down to Zero hp isn't gone. They "reincorporate" after a matter of days. The only way to get rid of a ghost permanently is to rectify/remove the conditions which created the ghost in the first place. With this particular ghost (Portifoy), he's trying to bring back his ancestor (and for that, he needs his ancestor's ashes). He failed to do so in life, so now he's fated to keep trying, once every 24 years, in death. Unfortunately, the ritual to bring back the ancestor also requires the blood of five innocents. Not cool.

The party has the ashes, but since they've ascertained that Portifoy is evil, and the ancestor was a vampire, and bringing back said ancestor would be considered "Not a Good Idea," they're naturally reluctant to hand over the ashes. And yet, Portifoy is now visiting them...every night., demanding the ashes, and throwing a fit (which includes attacking the party) when he doesn't get his way. Sure, hit him...bring him down to zero...he'll be back. He'll be back until he gets what he wants. The ghost in AD&D was never this powerful, this hard to kill, this relentless.

It helps to try and look at the situation from the perspective of someone who's dead. You don't need to breathe or eat. You don't feel pain, and you can't be reasoned with by means of those pesky Charisma-based skills. If you're incorporeal you can simply pass through walls, doors , PCs' armor...Run the undead properly, and in 3.5, they are truly a challenge.

 

[Sejs]

Originally I scoffed at undead. My players did also. I ended up making three adjustments to them as a result:

1) No level drain. It's just gone. I never liked the mechanic in the first place; I mean, what, do they drain away your memory and make you forget how to do things, or are they eatting your life-force? To me, noshing on your life-force sounds much more like Con damage. I couldn't find a way to explain the mechanic from an in-game standpoint in a way that I found satisfactory, so away it went.

2) Sentient undead get their Cha mod to hit points similar to how the living use their Con. Mindless undead don't. D12 hit dice or not, it's been my experience that things without a Con mod tend to be really frail, which in turn runs counter to the idea of the large hit die type = tough in the first place. Constructs have their bonus HP based on size, undead get their Cha mod. The things that're supposed to be hard to kill again became hard to kill.

3) Turn Undead, doesn't. Divine magicians can channel energy for a host of uses such as powering divine feats, placing and releasing seals, and so on. It is not, however, an instant trump when it comes to the undead. At least it isn't any longer. The giant shambling horde of zombies is no longer a laughing matter just because you have a Cleric with you. It's a serious threat.


My players no longer scoff at undead. I am happy.

 

[Zephrin the Lost]

My players were halfway through a temple dedicated to a goddess of the undead when Libre Mortis came out. I at once tweaked many of the remaining encounters with various options from that book, and the players went from cocky to rattled right quick.

Now they are on the evil goddess' demiplane, and I am using the variant turning undead rules from Complete Divine, so turning attempts here cause damage rather than causing the undead to flee or instantly implode.

So my players again have a healthy respect for undead, which had diminshed in the move from 2e to 3. But still, the worry they feel now is one of the unknown (Can these zombies cast spells?, etc) rather than 'omigod! It's dead and it's STILL WALKING!' this thread suggests.

 

[StupidSmurf]

My players were halfway through a temple dedicated to a goddess of the undead when Libre Mortis came out. I at once tweaked many of the remaining encounters with various options from that book, and the players went from cocky to rattled right quick.

Now they are on the evil goddess' demiplane, and I am using the variant turning undead rules from Complete Divine, so turning attempts here cause damage rather than causing the undead to flee or instantly implode.

So my players again have a healthy respect for undead, which had diminshed in the move from 2e to 3. But still, the worry they feel now is one of the unknown (Can these zombies cast spells?, etc) rather than 'omigod! It's dead and it's STILL WALKING!' this thread suggests.

Yeah, Libre Mortis rocks, donnit? I did something similar to what you did when I got my copy. And I know what you mean about the two kinds of worry, and I'd like to think an ideal situation is a healthy balance of the two, no?

The upcoming situation that I'm rubbing my hands over and chuckling evilly has to do with my earlier post about that ghost, Portifoy. The group has managed to get their hands on a magic item that I have named DawnCatcher, a light mace blessed by Lathander. It does indeed radiate magic, and the group, by use of Identify and other means, know what it does. However. It's not "charged" yet. Once per ten-day it must be held up to the rays of the rising sun (hence the clever name) in order to be charged. Soooooo, if they intend to wield the mace and/or use its spell-like abilities (like Scorching Ray), they're gonna be SORRY.

 

[Bloodstone Press]

As a player they freak me out pretty bad, because I know what a lot of them can do, and because i think undead should scare most people. We played a game about a year ago where there was rumors of a ghost in the swamp. NPCs kept hinting and urging us to look for money in the swamp, but I wouldn't go... too afraid of ghosts. So we went off and became pirates instead.

As a DM, I don't use them unless the plot deals with them specifically. I never just throw skeletons and vampires at PCs as random encounters. In my home-brew, undead are typically quite rare, though there have been wars with them in the past. Necromancy was banned long ago by the council of wizards, but there are still perverted warlocks out there who think undeath is cool...

As a regular person, i do find the undead pretty creepy. Horror movies about the undead are usually scarier than horror movies about demons or serial killers, IMO.

 

[dungeon]

are undead scary... in the dungeon

undead are scary, but not cuz of the level drain... cuz you can become 1 like in resident evil. i have a character that can bite the zombies to death. i'll show you his staits.

name: fossial fang class: fighter race: gnoll alignment: lawful neaturel level: 1

str: 15 int:14 wis:14 dex: 15 con: 18 cha:13

yes its true fossial fang is a gnoll. i know its weird but his pack was killed by an evil man and now searches the world to find him / or her. so give him a break.

( also undead are mostly slow so i never have anything to worry about.)

remember..."cuz if you don't you will never explore the dungeon"
if u like my slogun or just want to talk email me!

 

[Thunderfoot]

Undead are extremely scary - but maybe that's because I'm the DM!

Nothing like a Wraith sneak attacking from behind a group and then disappearing through a wall. Gives the groups the willies and keeps them on their toes, and just when they think they are prepared, frontal assault from a group of them leading wights or led by a Vamp with spawn support. Yeah, they're scary, and deadly!

The Libris Mortis has really given me the energy (sorry bad pun) to scare the pants off my players, which is an even scarier sight (with a couple of well rounded and better molded exceptions. )

 

[Theocrat]

Zombies

Hi all -
Zombies. Zombies live under my bed. I don't leave my toes over the edge of the bed. My wife and teenage kids all tease me. We have stairs and its open under them, so that I can see that Zombies aren't under them attempting to get me. Zombies are
I have my pit bull / jack russell terrier "Cleo" that protects me from the Zombies.
Please stop the Zombie joke, I can feel the snickering.
Be well
Theocrat

 

[BlackSilver]

It is all about how you use the undead. If they come from the darkness with a slow scrapping noise that makes the characters start asking "what's that? Do you hear that? What is that?" Then you are using them right. If they just pop up and get slaughtered then no they are not being used right. Scary and slow.