Area Bursts and Cover

[cjais]

Help me get a handle on the rules here please. As I interpret the rules, if a character has line of effect with a ranged burst power to a square, and there's no cover between the origin square of the burst and the target, that target doesn't get cover. Correct? And the origin square of the burst can be freely placed anywhere within range - i.e. it doesn't require an attack roll to place the square itself. Correct?

So if there's a low wall that grants superior cover between the wizard casting Scorching Burst, and a group of enemies on the other side, how can they ever get the +5 bonus to defenses from their cover? The wizard could just place the origin square of the burst behind the wall (as he has LOE to anything behind the wall), and since cover is determined from the origin square, not the caster, they wouldn't get any cover.

Am I interpreting the rules correctly? If yes, have you found this to be an actual problem in play? The way I see it, it's not very "realistic" for a fireball to automatically hit whatever is behind an arrow slit, for example.

 

[GorTeX]

hasn't been a problem in my games. The Fire ball doesn't automatically hit, the wizard still has to roll an attack roll vs. each target. Plus it is realistic that a burst effect (say a bomb) that hits behind the lines would not be effected by cover on the other side of the enemies.

One way to give cover to your targets is to have them in a 'trench' or have another low wall behind them...

 

[Dalzig]

Am I interpreting the rules correctly? If yes, have you found this to be an actual problem in play? The way I see it, it's not very "realistic" for a fireball to automatically hit whatever is behind an arrow slit, for example.

Yes, that's how it works. No, it's not a problem. The wizard (mechanically) doesn't throw the "realistic" hmm fireball, it simply appears at the spot where he wants it to be.

 

[cjais]

Yes, that's how it works. No, it's not a problem. The wizard (mechanically) doesn't throw the "realistic" hmm fireball, it simply appears at the spot where he wants it to be.

Thanks, that's probably the handle I missed! It makes sense if you think of the wizard simply pointing somewhere and making that spot erupt in flame.

Only problem remaining is how to explain powers that work by actually throwing a physical object that explodes. But I suppose I can manage. And yes, I know it doesn't "auto-hit" whatever is behind the wall or keyhole, but the cover that supposedly works to protect against ranged attacks is of no value against area bursts.

 

[Kordeth]

Thanks, that's probably the handle I missed! It makes sense if you think of the wizard simply pointing somewhere and making that spot erupt in flame.

Only problem remaining is how to explain powers that work by actually throwing a physical object that explodes. But I suppose I can manage. And yes, I know it doesn't "auto-hit" whatever is behind the wall or keyhole, but the cover that supposedly works to protect against ranged attacks is of no value against area bursts.

In the case of physically-hurled projectiles like grenades or whatnot, the attack should probably be set up as a primary attack against the origin square and a secondary attack against all targets within a close burst X of the origin.

 

[Tony Vargas]

An example of a wizard power where you target the equivalent of an origin would be Force Orb. It's a primary attack against one enemy /or object/ with a secondary attack against each adjacent enemy.

Being able to bypass cover & concealment is one of the cool things about AE. With cover, it lets you attack from a different 'angle' by placing the origin behind or two the side of the target (or right on it, in which case it only gets cover if it's own square provides cover to it). Concealment just doesn't matter for the attack roll - if something has total concealment, it's just a matter of guessing where it is. The bigger the burst, the more aproximate your guess can be.

Even the 1-square Cloud of Daggers can benefit from this.

 

[DracoSuave]

Force Orb -is- affected by cover between the spellcaster and the target, being of Attack Type Ranged.

 

[DracoSuave]

Thanks, that's probably the handle I missed! It makes sense if you think of the wizard simply pointing somewhere and making that spot erupt in flame.

Only problem remaining is how to explain powers that work by actually throwing a physical object that explodes. But I suppose I can manage. And yes, I know it doesn't "auto-hit" whatever is behind the wall or keyhole, but the cover that supposedly works to protect against ranged attacks is of no value against area bursts.

This is exactly the point behind grenades. You have enemy in cover, so you throw an explosive behind the cover so that they do not enjoy the protection their bunker gives you from your bullets.

See no reason why AoE spells wouldn't act -exactly the same way.-