Armor as DR and Defense Bonuses?

[Xer0]

Hi all, I was seriously considering using the Unearthed Arcana variant rules about using armor as Damage Reduction in conjunction with using level based Defense Bonuses instead of having armor directly provide AC bonuses.

Have any of you had any experience using these variants in their games? I'm trying to get away from having my players be so reliant on armor in my next game, an urban game where wearing armor is viewed as being odd.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Aries_Omega]

My players love it. Have not heard anything bad about it. I use that rule, Weapon Groups, Spell Points and Prestige Bard, Paladin and Ranger. I don't like the Defense Bonus. Seems too cinematic but it looks like sound rules.

 

[Xer0]

My players love it. Have not heard anything bad about it. I use that rule, Weapon Groups, Spell Points and Prestige Bard, Paladin and Ranger. I don't like the Defense Bonus. Seems too cinematic but it looks like sound rules.

So you've got no experience with armor as DR and level based defense bonuses? Has anybody used these rules together?

 

[Darklone]

I don't like it.

The UA rule is build to be just like the D&D 3E armor. Thus, clerics and fighters get good bonuses, while light armored mobile classes get a bad bonus to AC.

Exactly not what I would have wanted to see.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I don't like armor as DR in general. Neither from a "realistic" point of view (it's nonsense) nor from a game mechanical point of view.

 

[Nifft]

Edit: Forgot to mention that I don't like armor as DR in general. Neither from a "realistic" point of view (it's nonsense) nor from a game mechanical point of view.

Why is it unrealistic & bad mechanics?

I've always liked the idea, just never seen it done right IMHO.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Xer0]

I don't like it.

The UA rule is build to be just like the D&D 3E armor. Thus, clerics and fighters get good bonuses, while light armored mobile classes get a bad bonus to AC.

While this is true to an extent, a lot of the lighter armored classes will benefit from a higher Dexterity as well.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I don't like armor as DR in general. Neither from a "realistic" point of view (it's nonsense) nor from a game mechanical point of view.

Nonsense? Really? Armor is designed to lessen the damage from taking a hit, not prevent you from getting hit.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Nonsense? Really? Armor is designed to lessen the damage from taking a hit, not prevent you from getting hit.

Then you might want to think again about using that UA variant - it works out as half DR and half DA (damage avoidance.)

On the other hand, Conan (from Mongoose Publishing) uses armour as full DR, as does A Game of Thrones (from [the now deceased ] Guardians of Order) along with several other d20/OGL games.

It can be done, and in fact is my preferred way of representing the effect of wearing armour in d20 fantasy. When combined with AP values for weapons, critical effects, piecemeal armour, called shots, BDB (Base Defence Bonus, as a fraction of BAB) and a few other house rules of choice, combat suddenly becomes more interesting and convincing. YMMV, naturally.

 

[Xer0]

Then you might want to think again about using that UA variant - it works out as half DR and half DA (damage avoidance.)

On the other hand, Conan (from Mongoose Publishing) uses armour as full DR, as does A Game of Thrones (from [the now deceased ] Guardians of Order) along with several other d20/OGL games.

It can be done, and in fact is my preferred way of representing the effect of wearing armour in d20 fantasy. When combined with AP values for weapons, critical effects, piecemeal armour, called shots, BDB (Base Defence Bonus, as a fraction of BAB) and a few other house rules of choice, combat suddenly becomes more interesting and convincing. YMMV, naturally.

That's good to know, thanks for your input. Most of this comes out of the Conan RPG?

 

[Darklone]

Why is it unrealistic & bad mechanics?

I've always liked the idea, just never seen it done right IMHO.

Cheers, -- N

As mentioned, if I'd be looking for such a system, I'd use Conan too. It looked okay, just don't forget to upgrade the weapon damage.

I don't really want to start the old discussion because usually people are better off gaming how they like it, just some statements:
- Armor as DR is pretty unrealistic because it either blocks a hit that would kill you or not. Thus Armor as AC system in D&D is much more realistic than many assume. All these systems work rather unrealistic due to the hitpoints we use. For fun.
- I don't want high level clerics with low Dex that have a better AC in the same armor as the light armored ranger with a high Dex. Sue me, that's not how I want to see such a system done. That's for example what I call bad mechanics and I guess you mean the same things with your "I've never seen it done right".
- This is one of those discussions like "Dex should be used to hit, not Str" where I've been in the wrong camp too decades ago till I tried it. Thus my opinions refer to my personal and scientific experience on these topics and I refrained long ago from convincing others about these things who never tried it.