Armor Spikes & Grappling

[Epametheus]

Now, I know that armor spikes may be used to inflict damage in grapples. There's been some confusion in my group as to just how someone getting wrestled by a spikey dwarf actually works, though.

1) When making a grapple check that would deal damage with the armor spikes, does the grappler get any bonuses to the grapple check that he get when making a normal attack roll with the armor spikes? Ex. Weapon Focus or an enhancement bonus on the spikes. I've currently been assuming that the answer is yes; I would also assume that someone who has received the benefit of Greater Magic Fang or similar magic would also get the enhancement bonus to its grapple check for unarmed attacks.

2) Let's say that the Armor Spikes have the Shocking enchantment on them. Would the person being grappled by the electrified spikey dwarf take 1d6 electrical damage every round simply from being in the grapple? I'm guessing that the answer is no, though it would make sense if it was yes.

3) Is there any penalty for deliberately grappling someone with armor spikes, beyond grappling someone who is impossible to disarm? Would a purple worm actually injure itself trying to swallow the electrified spikey dwarf who has been mentioned above? I'm guessing no, but it wouldn't hurt to check.

Thanks.

 

[LokiDR]

1) This would be an attack with a light weapon, not a grapple check. All bonuses apply.

2) You do not deal damage unless you attack. If you were always electified, you would give yourself damage, besides your opponent.

3) See #2. You could use the spikes to get out of the gullet of a creature who has swallowed you. The DM migt change this, if it makes sense.

As always, Rule 0 applies.

 

[Zaruthustran]

2) You do not deal damage unless you attack. If you were always electified, you would give yourself damage, besides your opponent.

I question this.

SRD:

Upon command, a shock weapon is sheathed in crackling electricity. The electricity does not harm the hands that hold the weapon.

I take that passage to mean that:
1. A Shock weapon doesn't hurt the wielder of the weapon, when the weapon is wielded in a normal manner. For most weapons, that means the wielder isn't Shocked when holding the weapon with a hand or hands. For Armor Spikes (a worn weapon), that means the wielder isn't shocked when wearing the weapon. Same thing would apply to a Shield Spock that's been enchanted with Shock.
2. A Shock weapon DOES hurt the wielder (or anyone else) who touches the weapon in a manner other than the manner in which the weapon is normally wielded.

For an example, consider the Flaming enhancement. A Flaming weapon does not harm the wielder, but when held against an opponent (or grasped by an opponent) it would of course deal damage. It's not unreasonable to assume that the same applies to Shock, or Frost, or any other elemental enhancement.

So, my takes on the original question:

2) Let's say that the Armor Spikes have the Shocking enchantment on them. Would the person being grappled by the electrified spikey dwarf take 1d6 electrical damage every round simply from being in the grapple?

No rule covers this. It's up to the DM. Common sense would say yes, they'd take damage or at least have a chance of damage. But from a balance point of view, no, the grappler should only take Shock damage if the spikes score a hit.

3) Is there any penalty for deliberately grappling someone with armor spikes, beyond grappling someone who is impossible to disarm? Would a purple worm actually injure itself trying to swallow the electrified spikey dwarf who has been mentioned above?

There are no rules for such a penalty. Consider if the enhancement was Flaming. Would grappling a Flaming dwarf deal damage? Yes--the dwarf is on fire! Same applies to a dwarf that is electrified.

Only thing is, only the SPIKES are electrified. Grappling by, say, holding onto the beard, or grabbing around the wrists, or otherwise avoiding the spikes would avoid the shock damage. No rule accounts for this (thank goodness), so just make something up. I suggest -4 to grapple checks if you want to avoid the spikes.

The purple worm in your example can't avoid the spikes, so it would automatically take shock damage.

-z, flipping back and forth between logic and game balance. And desperately hoping D&D 3.5 decreases rules questions.

 

[Mahali]

Game balance beats logic every time.

If it doesn't good luck trying to challenge your players with "appropriate" CR and EL encounters.

 

[Stalker0]

Yeah, you can either attack with your armor spikes in the grapple (normal attack) or you can go with the opposed grapple check to try and do damage. That opposed grapple is nice against those really high AC tanks who don't have such a good attack

 

[Epametheus]

Armor Spikes can't be used in grapple attacks? Ummm...

Right from the SRD (bold emphasis mine):

Armor Spikes: Spikes can be added to armor. They deal 1d6 points of piercing damage (X2 crit) with a successful grapple attack. The spikes count as a martial weapon. If a character is not proficient with them, the character suffers a -4 penalty on grapple checks when trying to use them. A regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) can be made with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case.

So could I please get an answer to my first question? Considering that everyone has been assuming that it was invalid when it wasn't...

As to the other questions, thanks for your input.