Armor thoughts

[Coredump]

To stay more on topic.

One problem I see is the 'invulnerable' syndrome. A first level character can easily afford a breast plate ("DR" 10).
Now Goblins, orcs, Large skeletons, ghouls, ghasts, etc. etc. are all totally unable to hit except on a critical. And some of these are CR 4.

Even half plate should be affordable before second level.

I would love to go 'exterminating' with three fighters and a cleric. We could take out 3-4 tribes of goblins per day...
Or better yet, take out enough ghasts/ghouls in a day to be 3rd level.


The problem with changing some of the pervasive rules (like AC) is that much of the game is designed with certain concepts in mind, like this one.


Then when you get higher level, and creatures are doing a lot of damage, your armor will be dieing almost immediately.


.;

 

[Halivar]

One problem I see is the 'invulnerable' syndrome. A first level character can easily afford a breast plate ("DR" 10).
Now Goblins, orcs, Large skeletons, ghouls, ghasts, etc. etc. are all totally unable to hit except on a critical. And some of these are CR 4.

Good point.

Of course, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Level 4 n00b's are going to have a tough time geting throught he breastplate armor that horde of orcs is wearing.

But point taken, it is a tad bit unbalancing against characters that don't (or can't) wear armor.

 

[Planesdragon]

To stay more on topic.

One problem I see is the 'invulnerable' syndrome. A first level character can easily afford a breast plate ("DR" 10).
Now Goblins, orcs, Large skeletons, ghouls, ghasts, etc. etc. are all totally unable to hit except on a critical. And some of these are CR 4.

Solving this problem is actually fairly easy--just lower the hardness of armor. Armor isn't exactly as good as a block of the metal, anyway--it has rivets, straps, and open spaces that can be moved out of the way.

And, of course, the goblins et al can still disarm, grapple, and sneak attack. And they probably have armor of their own, as well.

The problem with changing some of the pervasive rules (like AC) is that much of the game is designed with certain concepts in mind, like this one.

Yeah, I know. But I'm changing a lot of the rest of the system as well, so tweaking armor along with it won't do THAT much harm/more harm.

Then when you get higher level, and creatures are doing a lot of damage, your armor will be dieing almost immediately.

Actually, once you get to higher level, you'll be able to have magical, mithral and admantine armor and weapons, which will stand up a lot better. Not to mention the wonder of Make Whole spells.

(*sigh*. A weekend without gaming is like a weekend full of car troubles...)

 

[Winternight]

More gory system

What about another, but simelar aproach.
Plate has hardness 14
chain has hardness 8
mithril adds 7 points
leather has hardness 4

the AC bonus is how much of the body is cover by the armor
so
leather armor would be +6 AC
chain mail +6
breat plate +4
and full plate +7

name AC Bonus Hardness
Mithrill Chain mail +6 / 15 (MCM)
fullplate +8/ 10 FP
leather +4/4 LA

thus a fighter with dex 14 and no other AC boni would have
with
a) MCM AC 12/18/15
b) FP AC 11/19/10
c) LA AC 12/16/4

If I hit the fighter over his Dodge bonus I hit hte armor instead, the armor subract the hardness from the damage dealt.
If I hit over The complet AC I bypass the armor and deal damage to the fighter

here is a table with some resluts. (see also attached file, it is the same only better formated)

Fighter..........hit AC 11.....Damage 10.....damage 15.....damage 20
A..........miss..........--..........--..........--
B..........hit armor .....none..........5..........10
C..........miss..........--..........--..........--

Fighter..........hit AC 13.....Damage 10.....damage 15.....damage 20
A..........hit armor .....none..........none..........1
B..........hit armor.....none..........5..........10
C..........hit armor.....6..........9..........14

Fighter..........hit AC 17.....Damage 10.....damage 15.....damage 20
A..........hit armor .....none..........none..........1
B..........hit armor.....none..........5..........10
C..........hit PC ..........10..........15..........20

Fighter..........hit AC 18.....Damage 10.....damage 15.....damage 20
A..........hit PC ..........10..........15..........20
B..........hit armor.....none..........5..........10
C..........hit PC ..........10..........15..........20

Fighter..........hit AC 20.....Damage 10.....damage 15.....damage 20
A..........hit PC ..........10..........15..........20
B..........hit PC..........10..........15..........20
C..........hit PC ..........10..........15..........20

Result is PC (NPC) get more hit loose more hit points.
Dex is important as the material is more important than in 3.0/3.5
It is only a bookkeeping bad dream.
As DM you say: I hit your character with ac 15 and deal 16 Damage. (no change)
As player: you have three Armorvalue instead of one. AC-dodge/AC-armor/hardness.
I think that`s playable.


question
a) do you understand the system?
b) what do you think of it?

 

[AeroDm]

question
a) do you understand the system?
b) what do you think of it?

a) No.
b) I like the essence of it and would like you to explain it more clearly. I would be a little worried with the extra bookkeeping though.

 

[Planesdragon]

(darn dupes.)

 

[Planesdragon]

name AC Bonus Hardness
Mithrill Chain mail +6 / 15 (MCM)
fullplate +8/ 10 FP
leather +4/4 LA

a) do you understand the system?
b) what do you think of it?

It's a method of tracking the damage done to armor in the current system, that is covered by generic hand-waving now.

While the structure is good, the benefit in a system like this doesn't outweigh the bookkeeping cost; d20 doesn't support staggered degrees of success except in non-regular circumstances (such as specific skill checks), and it probably will slow down combat too much.

Good attempt, though. I think the same effect could be done by giving armor some combination of DR / HP, and allowing any attack that exceeds the AC by 10 or so to bypass the armor.

(With prep "AC +10" could be just as fast, but one of the beauties of the d20 system is how easy it is to run NPCs without prep.)