Arresting the PCs

[Nagol]

<snip>

tl;dr: let's not pre-ruin the plots with the anticipation that the players would have ruined them anyway. They'll ruin plenty without our help. I present the scenario with a poker face, and when they buy in, plot twists happen.

I'm suggesting that the DM needs to have a fairly sound grasp of the situation and the ramifications of player success should he try to move a group unwillingly through play to a specific situation. Often the simplest (although very annoying to the players) approach is to start at the necessary initial situation.

If the DM wishes to play out the situation, it also helps when the DM has a firm grasp over both what is possible and what is probable as he tries to move the group from situation A to situation B against their will.

A DM can always force such a shift since his resources are inifinite and open ended. But, actions and resources are remembered by the players and will be turned to when they think such resources should reasonably put to their ends.

If an invisible silent Wizard casting silent dimension door/Deep Slumber/Hold Person spells helps the guard with such a pasky problem today, why cant he help when the situation has becomes so much worse on a later adventure? If slow-acting poisons work cumulatively now and are cheap enough for that many doses to be dumped by the town guard, why don't they work that way when we're trying to take out the evil keep's garrison?

If you need a deus ex machina, present it as such. It prevents a lot of twisting, wasted time, and potential for the situation to spiral out of control.

 

[aboyd]

If an invisible silent Wizard casting silent dimension door/Deep Slumber/Hold Person spells helps the guard with such a pasky problem today, why cant he help when the situation has becomes so much worse on a later adventure? If slow-acting poisons work cumulatively now and are cheap enough for that many doses to be dumped by the town guard, why don't they work that way when we're trying to take out the evil keep's garrison?

Um, yeah, why wouldn't they? That was kinda my point: these are cheap, fair, easy things that won't be upsetting for the DM if the tables are turned.

Your warning note regarding my posts is... fine by me. Let the players ask for slow acting poisons. We are talking about something cheap with a low DC. If the PCs decide to try the same thing, no problem! If they decide to go for redundancy and stack multiple poisons & spells just as the DM did, so? They are again cheap and it's a totally fair way for the players to turn the tables.

I don't understand why this is getting presented as an issue.

 

[Nagol]

It's not an issue so much as a consideration many DMs who try to run the "get to where I want you to be" session don't take.

Many of these forms of actions should have ramifications for the game world and if you understand and are cool with those consequences then they're great methods to use.

 

[JQP]

House-rule some EFFECTIVE methods to subdue characters.

It's not like being surrounded and ambushed and konked over the head is something alien to tall tales.

The inability to simply capture these rogues sounds more like a DM failure to me than anything else. A brute squad should be able to do the job. And if the players insist on taking it beyond non-lethal means and killing guards in the process, the obvious consequence is that the guards should try to return the favor. I'd have no problem killing characters off in this fashion. Then their players can have the bad memory of losing a beloved character for nothing to give them pause the next time they want to pretend getting captured is never a part of tall tales.

 

[Dirty Magurdy]

Assuming the party has good intentions and an over-all good outlook regardless of how many guards they have slaughtered there should still be some ways to have them turn themselves over...

Perhaps an innocent bystander, some sweet, pretty damosel has been arrestd for the crime the party is said to have committed. Will the party come forward to have her released? It's the chivalrous thing to do - surrender sucks to most gamers, but turning one's self over in sacrafice for a lovely damsel is another thing entirely...

Perhaps the jolly, friendly inn-keeper who gave them rooms is arrested for harboring fugatives - if you RP this inn keeper as nice enough, funny enough and sympathetic enough the party should do the right thing and see him set free...

Perhaps the guards start rounding up associates, friends or families of the party (providing they have such contacts in this city) or, if there are none to be found - acolytes of the cleric's church, errand boys in service to the party, romantic interests or friendly tap-matrons - anyone sufficiently liked and endeared to the party being hauled in should get a group of good-leaning adventurers to do the right thing and turn themselves over, especially if the party's rogue, while watching from a dark alley happens to over-hear a constable suggesting that he has his suspicions of this noble muckety-muck arresting on a whime anyone who seems to slight him, and that he's determined to get to the bottom of this....

If this fails then I guess you wasted your time. Fast forward to the poison sequence and get on with the adventure.
Good luck.

 

[akbearfoot]

as a player, I really hate the 'you all need to be arrested' plotline.

In most games, you can't even get players to go into towns that forbid weapons, or even require measures like 'peace-tying'. Any situation that would require any pc to relenquish their weapons or voluntarily lower their defenses pretty much automatically causes the gamers I play with, including myself, to go into panic mode.

'what weapons CAN I bring', 'What can I hide', 'Lets go spend 3 weeks adding calling to our armor'weps', 'Can I bring this harmless walking cane(ie..staff of power). It will either turn into an entire gaming session filled with paranoid planning, or you can just end it with DM fiat, or a hopeless situation and have them all feel like they were railroaded.

Situations like this are exactly why so many players tend to be overly paranoid. And while I definitely appreciate the depth and dimension and flavor a good plot twist can add to a game, I'd probably rather just get killed and be pissed and roll up a new character that wasn't in jail.

Case in point. Dragon Age...great game. Worst 2 parts in the game for me were the 2 places where you 'go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect loot'. Even though you know u are going to get freed and get all your crap back, losing your choice in the matter sucks for most folks.

Plus, regardless of how cool a fight was or how daring an escape was made, I would probably take it personally if my character died during said scene. While the gear he had 'worked' so hard for was locked in a chest some place and he had no choice in the matter.

 

[Rakusia]

brave sir rodarick. lvl 10 fighter/5 wizard/5 rogue. died without his armor or spell componants today due to corruption in the town guard. falsely accused of misdeeds he gave himself up to the mercy of the court. when his plight never came tot he knowledge of the court he took it upon himself. picking the lock with a rat bone. he attempted a daring escape and was slain by a guard who mistook him for another prisoner. when asked to cment the guard captain replied. he was a criminal and tried to break out. let this be a lesson. and stop asking.

 

[ValhallaGH]

brave sir rodarick. lvl 10 fighter/5 wizard/5 rogue. died without his armor or spell componants today due to corruption in the town guard. falsely accused of misdeeds he gave himself up to the mercy of the court. when his plight never came tot he knowledge of the court he took it upon himself. picking the lock with a rat bone. he attempted a daring escape and was slain by a guard who mistook him for another prisoner. when asked to cment the guard captain replied. he was a criminal and tried to break out. let this be a lesson. and stop asking.

That ... is one hell of a prison guard. He soloed a 20th level PC.

Sure, the PC was unarmed and had none of his gear, but still! That's at least 100hp, versus a guard who shouldn't have more than 12 hp.

 

[JamesonCourage]

That ... is one hell of a prison guard. He soloed a 20th level PC.

Sure, the PC was unarmed and had none of his gear, but still! That's at least 100hp, versus a guard who shouldn't have more than 12 hp.

Guard Captain? 12 HP? Am I the only GM who has high level NPCs in sometimes important positions? (Obviously I'm not, it's rhetorical folks)

 

[Rakusia]

assuming of course it wasnt someone on the take and made it look like a prison escape turned bad? i mena if ur gonna steam roll them into jail the nextstep is a tpk. or that maybe they knew he was in their jail and put in a properly lvld guard to stop a possible escape? i mean if they go to the trouble to arrest him wouldnt they go another step and make sure he stays there?