Artificer UA to be released in February

I don't think there is a bunker strong enough to endure the fanbase exploding over this.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The thing with Eberron is it has magic pretty much falling out of the sky. So why would someone build a device for shooting little lead balls, when it is easier, cheaper, and more effective to build something that shoots lightning?

 

[Jester David]

This discussion is archtypal ENWorld. The discussion of whether or not the artificer needed guns was a good one to have... back in January 2017 when the survey was posted. Now, it's irrelevant. Because nothing said here remotely matters in any way, and will have ZERO impact on the class that has already been written based on feedback that has already been given. It's an argument for the sake of fighting. It's not making anyone's game better, it's not improving the class or positing feedback, and it certainly isn't changing anyone's mind. It's just bickering.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

What have you got against bickering? You think we have anything better to do? Sure, an artificer needs guns. Eberron does not need guns. Since Eberron won't be the only place artificers appear, there is no conflict. However, a lack of conflict is no reason to pass up on a good bicker.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I've gone two ways in the past, adding guns to Eberron.

1) Magic Guns. It's a gun, looks like a gun, it's totally a gun. It is just powered by an alchemical liquid that explodes when you pull the trigger, because magical magnets, basically. It smells bad, too much of it in a small space will cause eyes to water, and it otherwise functions like a gun.

2) A new kind of wand/rod/staff that does a very simple kind of damage, doesn't have charges, and requires no training or spellcasting ability. So, it's more magical in feel, because it's a wand/rod/staff, and it does fire, or radiant, or cold, or whatever, but otherwise it works like a gun that is magical. Range increments, add dex to attack and damage, etc.

Both work fine, IME.

My idea for guns in Eberron was that the ancient Dhakaani Empire had weapons known as "boomsticks" that were guns, but the Goblins lost knowledge of how to make such weapons after the Dhakaani Empire fell.

 

[jgsugden]

Eberron is a game where a 'Critical Role' approach is good - they're just being discovered at the time that Eberron takes place. I added them to my recent, but short, Eberron game as a recent invention that started to show up in the hands of the Lord of Blades. However, I think that every time I ran an Eberron campaign, I would go back to the same starting point in time and have whatever enemy I decided should be the main villain would be the one that discovered guns and added them to the world.

I think this artificer will likely not have the gun version included, or will have it as a build that is not recommended for Eberron - or is recommended as a Critical Role 'the PC introduces it' style mechanic.

 

[NaturalZero]

The thing with Eberron is it has magic pretty much falling out of the sky. So why would someone build a device for shooting little lead balls, when it is easier, cheaper, and more effective to build something that shoots lightning?

Even in a saturated low-magic setting like Eberron, most people can't cast damaging cantrips at-will. In fact, the presence of special arcaneers on the battlefield throwing magic around at non-magical soldiers makes a great argument for inventing firearms to level the playing field. In real life, one side has bows, the other side develops firearms, then one side gets better armor, the other side makes better guns, someone develops biologicial weapons, another makes bombs, drones appear to take out personnel, an so on. Having a war with "haves" and "have-nots" as far as ranged magical artillery is great recipe for an arms race.

Eberron is a game where a 'Critical Role' approach is good - they're just being discovered at the time that Eberron takes place.

This is one viable way to go without changing the canon at all. The timeline didn't move forward, and someone has just come up with the idea. If you don't want the thundercannon subclass, no one has yet to come up with it yet. I mean, it's not that far off from what they did with the timeline for Dark Sun in 4e. Whatever direction you want to take your own game branches off of the presented material.

 

[Kurotowa]

I certainly think so. Especially when you consider that it could be based on a miniaturization of lightning rail tech, or a reliably imbued variant of something like Magic Stone or Catapult.

Another alternative I've pondered is fluffing it as a Cantrip strength variant of Thunderwave plus a runically enhanced firing barrel to fire projectiles with pure air pressure. In other words, rather than alchemical gunpowder substitutes you'd be using magically powered airsoft guns strong enough to do actual damage. It would explain why the weapons can't be handed to just anyone, get more powerful as you go up in level, and are easily enhanced with extra magical effects. They'd be a pretty specialized weapon, but so is most of what PCs get up to, and you can just figure most Gunsmiths make their own guns.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

For me, using guns in Eberron doesn't change the setting pretty much at all, except that the common guard and soldier gets more lethals. The problem for me with wandslingers is that you still have to be able to cast spells to use a wand. However, I do think that Eberron is a setting where using the "Level 1 Bonus Feat (can't be traded for an ASI)" houserule makes a lot of sense, so having characters with Magic Initiate, and a fancy wand, can work. Still, the wandslinger can't fill the same role of the firearm, IMO at all, unless it's something that can be picked up off the floor by an untrained peasant and kill you dead, so Wandslingers are always gonna fall short on that.

NPC Wandslingers can't generally cast spells without a wand. Remember in Eberron PCs are unusual. Its like why there are a lot more magewrights than artificers in the world: PC caster classes are much rarer than NPC Wandslingers, and much less limited.

Even in a saturated low-magic setting like Eberron, most people can't cast damaging cantrips at-will. In fact, the presence of special arcaneers on the battlefield throwing magic around at non-magical soldiers makes a great argument for inventing firearms to level the playing field.

Firearms aren't something that you can just decide to invent from scratch. They are the result of many technological advances in metallurgy, engineering, chemistry etc. Only after all those were known were people able to consider the concept of a firearm as a practical weapon.
Eberron doesn't have those advances.
Its easy for us to look back through the history and say "Well, all they have to do is develop this, then that, and then they can make firearms." But the people actually doing so do not have that endpoint visible. Even more to the point, early firearms just weren't that effective. A nation would be more likely to be put resources into developing something they know will work, like improving the formulae for arcane foci to allow more people to be wandslingers.

This is one viable way to go without changing the canon at all. The timeline didn't move forward, and someone has just come up with the idea. If you don't want the thundercannon subclass, no one has yet to come up with it yet. I mean, it's not that far off from what they did with the timeline for Dark Sun in 4e. Whatever direction you want to take your own game branches off of the presented material.

Yep. If a player was dead-set on playing the Gunsmith Artificer, and wasn't willing to adjust it to fit in with the setting, having them be unique would be the way that you could allow them to without dissonance. They're the mad inventor who has developed something completely off the charts, and it will only work for them due to their knowledge of the magic involved.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Another alternative I've pondered is fluffing it as a Cantrip strength variant of Thunderwave plus a runically enhanced firing barrel to fire projectiles with pure air pressure. In other words, rather than alchemical gunpowder substitutes you'd be using magically powered airsoft guns strong enough to do actual damage. It would explain why the weapons can't be handed to just anyone, get more powerful as you go up in level, and are easily enhanced with extra magical effects. They'd be a pretty specialized weapon, but so is most of what PCs get up to, and you can just figure most Gunsmiths make their own guns.

Bound Air Elemental possibly. That would make the lightning effect (which becomes more powerful than the physical as you level) more logical.
It may require more cooperation from the elemental or unusual bindings to allow it to do so, hence why it can only be used by the artificer.

 

[epithet]

I'm pretty sure I've seen warforged with arm cannons in 3 or 3.5. Was that not a thing?