As you enter the room, you see everything OR how to handle high passive perception

[darkadelphia]

A perception modifier of +10 + 1/2 level or greater is not uncommon in a five person party. Such a character will always see traps of his or her level or lower and will almost always see hiding enemies.

Obviously, you shouldn't punish the player for having high perception, so it's necessary to include hidden enemies and traps so that they get what they paid for. However, this can make encounter design quite difficult. Without making all your traps high level/elite, they're going to stick out like sore thumbs.

Two solutions I've thought of are to have "beneficial traps" so that a given PC does not know whether a trigger plate will dispense candy or pain. Taking this too far is very "gotcha!" and against spirit of the new edition (a spirit which I feel has made my games very fun).

The other solution I've come up with is to have trigger plates in places the high perception character is unlikely to see or have them in places the PCs cannot avoid. Once again, very "gotcha!"

I'm a bit perplexed on what to do--I like traps in theory, and excluding them is unfair to the rogue, but it's a waste of xp budget to put in traps that the PCs have no chance of falling for.

For those of you playing high perception characters, how often do you feel that you need to absolutely foil a trap/ambush to feel like you're getting fair mileage from your skill training?

 

[ac_noj]

I DM a group with a player who had a passive perception of 24 at level 1. So what I do is use traps as obsticles and hazards. Put them in places where they'll hinder movement or where controlers can push players into them (remember the players get a save).

 

[kouk]

Spotting a trap isn't the same as overcoming it.

Sometimes a trap can be unavoidable, or must be disabled with Thievery, or just smashed to pieces. You might see the control box, but it's on the other side of the room (through all the traps).

Even if you disable at trap doesn't meant it is not a threat; a disabled Pit Trap is still a pit. Combine that Pit with enemies who can push...

Some traps can be triggered by an enemy pulling a lever, or be too big to "disable." The high Perception may help give an answer how to avoid the trap, or overcome it, but there is still danger.

I think you should have a few traps and such that are easily noticeable to the player, but also several which a passive just won't catch -- so a Trapfinder still has to do his job and look around sometimes. Put them in likely places though like doorways and such.

 

[Notmousse]

Hate saying me too, but this is why you invest in this skill, so you're not getting caught offguard by everyone without tank armor, or the pit trap right in front of you.

 

[Paul Strack]

I have players make active Perception checks against their enemy's passive Stealth rating to avoid ambushes. It doesn't reveal too much, since they are going to be in combat shortly. Those who fail are surprised. Your uber-Perception guy will mostly be fine, but will still be surprised occasionally with a bad roll.

I don't use traps much, but I imagine something similar would work in that case: those who fail the perception checks stumble into the trap and take damage.

As a reward for players with super-Perception, I'd rule that if they rolled really well (10 over the base DC), the ambush/trap was spotted in time to warn the entire party, so no one is surprised and no one trips the trap.

 

[Rechan]

What kouk said.

Traps aren't "Bang, take damage, move on". Think of a trap like a monster that is lives in that room. It may be "hiding", but it's to be combated or avoided all together.

As for ambushes and such, I would argue that the player with such a fat perception doesn't grant CA to enemies, if his perception is that good (although if he has the alertness feat, that's kinda a pointless beanie).

 

[Stormtower]

Consider using your encounter XP budget to design or place traps that do not rely on surprise to function. Crossbow turrets are an excellent example of this; they are essentially stationary artillery that can be smashed down or disabled as the party wishes. Whether the tricked out elf ranger with his 22-24 passive perception sees it is irrelevant... the turret must still be destroyed or disabled, else it will continue to pelt the PCs with bolts each round.

This basic philosophy can extend into higher level blaster traps and such... but as others have said, be sure to occasionally let the high-Perception PC use his shtick and save the party from a trap or two. It's in the spirit of mutual fun to let PCs be good at what they're built to be good at.

 

[defendi]

I'd like to expand slightly on the unavoidable trap, just because I haven't seen someone actually spell this part out. A trap that you see and that you can think your way through is MUCH more difficult to get around if you don't know it's there. If you throw them up against a trap that's absolute instant death if they don't know it's coming, but merely challenging if they do, they'll be thinking, "Wow. I'm glad Bill spotted THAT."

 

[Syrsuro]

I'd like to expand slightly on the unavoidable trap, just because I haven't seen someone actually spell this part out. A trap that you see and that you can think your way through is MUCH more difficult to get around if you don't know it's there. If you throw them up against a trap that's absolute instant death if they don't know it's coming, but merely challenging if they do, they'll be thinking, "Wow. I'm glad Bill spotted THAT."

And which is more fun? "Oops, you all died. Too bad you didn't see that. I guess you'd better crawl along the corrdor checking every five feet next time." OR "Wow. I'm glad Bill spotted THAT. How the heck are we going to get past this?"

Few things are a better argument for shifting the challenge from SPOTTING the trap to BYPASSING the trap.

On a related note: http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/90/bad-trap-syndrome/

Traps that are nothing more than wandering damage do not make for good adventuring. I'd even go so far as to call them a waste of both the player's time and the DM's time.

Traps that require the players to interact with them, either in figuring out how to disable them, how to bypass them or whatever are far more fun.

Carl

 

[coldpheasant]

Find ways to make your spotter feel like his skill investment has directly contributed to party survival and experience, but tailor the encounters around your advance knowledge of your players' abilities to ensure they are not anti-climactic.

A great example is the trap that is wickedly lethal if not detected, but merely challenging to avoid when noticed immediately. The players are rewarded with their knowledge of what might have happened (and this could also help build suspense) and they are more directly rewarded with the actual experience for avoiding the trap.