D&D 5E Atheism in DnD

[Arial Black]

In my head Crocodile Dundee said that.

Makes sense though. He hasn't specified exactly how he's going to portray it. I half suspect he's gonna drop the "one true god" line at some stage, which would be cool. Might be getting a bit too realsies for the others though.

This reminds me of an awful bit of comics writing that I read as a kid.

Before George Perez took Wonder Woman back to her roots and re-vamped her, I read a story where WW says something about what the gods thought/would do, and then something about the 'higher God' above even them; a fairly unambiguous reference to the Abrahamic God.

I was appalled, even at that young age! Wonder Woman not only believes in the Olympian pantheon, not only has she actually met them herself, they also gave her her powers.

She also comes from a culture that existed before monotheism was thought of. I'm not suggesting that it's inappropriate for a comic character to be Christian, Jewish or Muslim; I'm saying that it's inconceivable that Wonder Woman is!

If your player's PC were to suddenly spout ideas of a single God that is 'real' while the ones that actually do stuff are not, why would anyone else in the world believe him?

In the Forgotten Realms there is meant to be a God beyond the gods, but he doesn't get worshipped and I don't believe that most mortals have even heard of the concept.

I would view such a sudden statement in a typical medieval-type fantasy world in the same way I would view a PC suddenly making a working fission reactor.

 

[Wik]

Honestly, on to the matter at hand... I'd allow it. It could be fun, and, while I don't know the player at all, I get the vibe that maybe it's someone wanting to address a real world issue in a game - whether to defend their own faith, or try on an atheist's clothing (both work).

As for how this would work in the game world - the PC thinks that "the gods" exist, but doesn't believe they did the things that are worthy of gods. ie, they grant powers to people to further a divine agenda, but they didn't create the world, and they're ultimately nothing more than, say, super powerful dragons.

"I don't pray to a dragon; why would I pray to Moradin"?

 

[Dkase]

If your player's PC were to suddenly spout ideas of a single God that is 'real' while the ones that actually do stuff are not, why would anyone else in the world believe him?

The PC would be in the same position as any person starting their own religion, they'd have to connect with those that are on the fence or feel disaffected from their traditional faiths and sway them. It happens often enough in our own world, and while it does have the capacity to bring some uncomfortable RL issues to the table, a PC believing that spreading their new faith could be a good role play angle in itself.

 

[Evenglare]

Well you can't be an atheist in the traditional sense of the word if you have beings defined as gods and overtly known to be real. You just.. you just can't... the definition is "disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods". Again, if they are gods and they are real within the fiction and it's well known and blatantly obvious then you simply can't call yourself an atheist. If you choose not to follow those gods I'd say the correct word would be something along the lines of anti-theist. Now one argument I've heard about this is that gods aren't gods since they can be statted, they are just REALLY REALLY powerful beings. If that's the case then sure you can be an Atheist because you don't have gods you just have super magical amazing NPCS essentially. It's all within the terms that YOU define for gods.

 

[Celtavian]

What if he were an atheist arguing the gods are not actually gods, but powerful evolved entities created by an explosion that started the universe. He was setting out to prove his theory. The gods were chosen to rule over certain aspects of the universe due to evolutionary pressures upon human-like beings that eventually allowed them to ascend to godhood exerting influence over those things which they considered important to their people or life. Or that gods are a manifestation of the collective consciousness of a people that gains a life unto itself exerting control over a people reinforcing cultural and moral values within the group. You can come up with all kinds of interesting theories involving evolution and atheism when it comes to the gods. Humans have done this for all of time with everything from religion to science.

 

[Azurewraith]

I think its perfectly fine DMed a game for 2friends once and one of them was an ardent atheist the other was a cleric the RP between the two round the camp fire was amazing as they each tried to convince each other. In the end the cleric convinced the other guy that the gods where real or at least his god(pelor i think) the other player ascended to the throne and made only worship of (lets say it was pelor) lawfull fun times.

So go for it.

 

[Minigiant]

In my setting, there are athetists as the one god is very distant and all divinity which reaches the planes are channeled through archangels/archdevils, immortals, reincarnated avatars, and demigods.

So there is a conspiracy that the god is dead and the Higher Divine beings both good and evil are hiding that fact from mortals and everyone else. Many believe divine creatures would die or disappear if they belief there is no gods for them to serve and thus lie to themselves.

"You deluded fool. Farth is dead. Raffar and Eofar lies to us and falsify his orders. Even the Lord of Hells, Bisofar, pretends to rebel against his former master. They speak lies to us and themselves."
---

For some settings,the could be a subset of athiests or malthiests who wish to perform a ritual to revive or create a deity they are willing to worship.

"Screw Moradin. I'll make my own dwarven deity...."

 

[Dausuul]

Sure, it can work. It's simple enough to say, "Clerics are just another breed of wizard. They use a lot of mumbo jumbo about gods to make themselves seem important, but clerical magic is no different from any other kind." Heck, he might even be right! (Though there are a few spells and abilities, like commune and Divine Intervention, that need explanation in that case. Just who is the party cleric really talking to? Could be something very, very bad...)

Even if the gods are pretty interventionist, FR-style, most people will never encounter them. There are folks in the real world who believe the earth is flat, despite mountains of evidence to the contrary.

As for how you get treated when you die... depends on the setting. As I understand it, most D&D settings have your Final Destination determined by your alignment, not your beliefs, so a Lawful Good atheist will end up in the Seven Heavens, Arcadia, or the Twin Paradises, right alongside the paladins. However, the Forgotten Realms is a special case--you have to pick a god there or you get stuffed into a wall.

 

[Arial Black]

The PC would be in the same position as any person starting their own religion, they'd have to connect with those that are on the fence or feel disaffected from their traditional faiths and sway them. It happens often enough in our own world, and while it does have the capacity to bring some uncomfortable RL issues to the table, a PC believing that spreading their new faith could be a good role play angle in itself.

In a world where the gods actually do grant tangible miracles every day, it would be very difficult to persuade people that these were not gods but there is a singular God...but he doesn't grant miracles...

If you were 'people', would you be convinced?

Another thing: if you were brought up in a world where these miracle-bestowing beings were called 'gods', then 'gods' are those beings! They are the definition!

If you were brought up in a world where there are, say, elephants, then imagine someone coming along and saying that they aren't elephants, but an elephant does exist...only you can't see it...

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Another thing: if you were brought up in a world where these miracle-bestowing beings were called 'gods', then 'gods' are those beings! They are the definition!

But "Atheism" is a real-world term which doesn't exist in D&D either, so we can apply real-world standards in evaluating whether it's appropriate in D&D. I mean, maybe the Common word is "Elot" and we just render it as "gods" in English. And a player who says he's an atheist is saying he doesn't think that's a good translation into English, and he thinks Elot are just Elot, powerful NPCs with magic. He doesn't necessarily have to have a Common word for "atheist", he just needs to convey an atheist's attitude towards Elot.

But most people don't distinguish between in-game concepts like Common and out-of-game concepts like English, we just pretend that English = Common and that real-life definitions of things like "atheism" are directly translatable to in-character ideas.

If you grow up in a world where normal people can produce hugely powerful magical effects through skill and experience, and someone tries to tell you that Pelor is not just a spellcaster but something qualitatively different called a "god", how receptive do you think you're going to be to that argument? Which is why most wizards IME are not religious. Especially not the ones who pursue demi-lichdom.