Attack roll-dependent damage

[Triangleman27]

A simple suggestion:

By default, beating the target's AC causes damage equal to median of the possible results of the damage die plus any bonuses. Hence, a shortsword would do 3 points of HP damage instead of 1d6, longsword 4 instead of 1d8, etc.

Beating the AC by 10 or more causes the maximum possible damage that could result from the damage dice before applying any modifiers(ie. 6 from a shortsword, 8 from a longsword).

If the modified result of the attack roll is exactly the target's AC, the minimum possible damage is inflicted.

In the case of a Critical Threat, the result of the confirmation roll determines the multiplied damage (minimum, medium or max).

For the sake of consistency, a similar setup can be easily done for saving throws.

Now, this is so simple that I'm guessing someone already tried it- and ran into unforeseen complications. Probably players would be far more concerned with beefing up their To Hit stats and breaking feats like Weapon Finesse.

Thoughts?

 

[Kahuna Burger]

A simple suggestion:

By default, beating the target's AC causes damage equal to median of the possible results of the damage die plus any bonuses. Hence, a shortsword would do 3 points of HP damage instead of 1d6, longsword 4 instead of 1d8, etc.

Beating the AC by 10 or more causes the maximum possible damage that could result from the damage dice before applying any modifiers(ie. 6 from a shortsword, 8 from a longsword).

If the modified result of the attack roll is exactly the target's AC, the minimum possible damage is inflicted.

In the case of a Critical Threat, the result of the confirmation roll determines the multiplied damage (minimum, medium or max).

For the sake of consistency, a similar setup can be easily done for saving throws.

Now, this is so simple that I'm guessing someone already tried it- and ran into unforeseen complications. Probably players would be far more concerned with beefing up their To Hit stats and breaking feats like Weapon Finesse.

Thoughts?

The FUDGE combat system uses a similar idea to this - the amount of damage done is based on degree of success. While I like the idea in principle, I'm not sure it will map well onto the 3e combat system. For all it's claims of being abstract, the massive variation in weapon damage and different ways of describing where damage comes from could prove complicating.

It would be interesting for the non two handed power attackers to have an option for increasing damage based on increased to hit. I'd give it a whirl and see what the results are in play.

 

[Pinnacle]

Slight issue.

Say I have an attack that deals 1d8 points of damage and will hit my enemy on a natural roll of 10.
If I roll a 10, I will deal 1 point of damage. If I roll an 11-29, I will deal 4 points of damage.
If I roll a 20, things get more complicated: If I roll a 1-9, the crit fails and I deal 8 damage (for beating AC by 10); if I roll a 10, I deal 2 points of damage; if I roll an 11-19, I deal 8 points of damage; and if I roll another 20, I deal 16 points of damage.
A critical hit has a 1/11 chance of doubling my damage, a 1/11 chance of reducing it, and a 9/11 chance of not doing anything?
This isn't an issue once you've got a good enough bonus to damage (which isn't that much), but lower-level characters could be hoping to fail their confirmation roll.

To fix it, have a critical hit deal whatever the first hit gives plus whatever the second hit gives.
For my example, the 20 followed by 1-9 deals 8 damage (maximum plus nothing), the 20 followed by the 10 deals 9 (maximum plus minimum), the 20 followed by 11-19 deals 12 (full plus half), and the 20-20 deals 16 (max twice).


Once the characters have enough bonuses to their damage, though, it doesn't make that much of a difference anyway (unless they have bonus damage dice...).

 

[Triangleman27]

Slight issue.

Say I have an attack that deals 1d8 points of damage and will hit my enemy on a natural roll of 10.
If I roll a 10, I will deal 1 point of damage. If I roll an 11-29, I will deal 4 points of damage.
If I roll a 20, things get more complicated: If I roll a 1-9, the crit fails and I deal 8 damage (for beating AC by 10); if I roll a 10, I deal 2 points of damage; if I roll an 11-19, I deal 8 points of damage; and if I roll another 20, I deal 16 points of damage.
A critical hit has a 1/11 chance of doubling my damage, a 1/11 chance of reducing it, and a 9/11 chance of not doing anything?
This isn't an issue once you've got a good enough bonus to damage (which isn't that much), but lower-level characters could be hoping to fail their confirmation roll.

To fix it, have a critical hit deal whatever the first hit gives plus whatever the second hit gives.
For my example, the 20 followed by 1-9 deals 8 damage (maximum plus nothing), the 20 followed by the 10 deals 9 (maximum plus minimum), the 20 followed by 11-19 deals 12 (full plus half), and the 20-20 deals 16 (max twice).


Once the characters have enough bonuses to their damage, though, it doesn't make that much of a difference anyway (unless they have bonus damage dice...).

Thanks for that. Now I'm just wondering how 4e is going to revise the criticals rule.

 

[Pinnacle]

It's not a big issue, just something I noticed when I read how you were going to do crits.

 

[Asurya]

quote Triangleman27: For the sake of consistency, a similar setup can be easily done for saving throws.

I hope I'm not reading this right... do you mean that depending on how you win/fail your saving throw vs a spell or effect, that spell/effect is automatically minimized/averaged/maximized?
and if so, how do that affect save-or-screw spells?

my issue is that damaging spell, though not the ideal route for caster, deal far more damage than std weapon... so a free maximised effect is a bit much (considering how much it cost in metamagic)

on the system for AC, how do you handle the additional damage (+1d6 fire/cold/electrical/... weapon enchantement)?

just my 2cp

 

[Triangleman27]

quote Triangleman27: For the sake of consistency, a similar setup can be easily done for saving throws.

I hope I'm not reading this right... do you mean that depending on how you win/fail your saving throw vs a spell or effect, that spell/effect is automatically minimized/averaged/maximized?
and if so, how do that affect save-or-screw spells?

my issue is that damaging spell, though not the ideal route for caster, deal far more damage than std weapon... so a free maximised effect is a bit much (considering how much it cost in metamagic)

on the system for AC, how do you handle the additional damage (+1d6 fire/cold/electrical/... weapon enchantement)?

just my 2cp

I had save-and-take-half spells in mind. If you make the save by 10 or more, you suffer no damage as if you had the evasion feat. A regular success inflicts half the average damage. A regular fail inflicts average and only a natural 1 would inflict max.

You got a point about the extra dice issue

 

[DreamChaser]

Thanks for that. Now I'm just wondering how 4e is going to revise the criticals rule.

No need to wonder: max damage on a natural 20. additional dice for each magic plus (the going theory is +1d6 per +1 of the weapon). Some weapons have extra damage on crits (probably the same ones that had x3 and 4 multipliers before).

DC