D&D 5E Attack rolls vs ability checks for invisible/prone opponents

[Mage of Spellford]

Hey All,

Been DM'ing 5e since it came out but we only play once a week and my memory isn't what it used to be and I have a question.

1. Attack rolls against a prone creature have advantage and the creatures 'attack rolls' are at disadvantage which is pretty clear, however say the prone creature uses a special attack action to shove the grappler away/prone is this attack action at disadvantage? The confusion exists for me because there is no attack roll it is an opposed ability check and there is nothing in the RAW about disadvantage on ability checks when affected by the prone condition.

2. Pretty much the same question about invisible creatures. If I use shove or grapple to attack an invisible creature is it at disadvantage, if not then invisibility is somewhat nerfed isn't it?

3. If the answer to these two questions is yes to disadvantage then what about the Hex spell or any other spell action which allows you to affect ability checks but not attack rolls. Does this mean that Hex affects grapplers or creatures using the shove action even though it doesn't affect attacks?

What is your consensus?

MK

 

[jaelis]

As written, checks to shove or grapple do not suffer disadvantage/advantage from things that affect attack rolls. Of course you can impose ad hoc advantage/disadvantage any time you think it is appropriate.

They would be affected by hex and other effects that pertain to ability checks.

 

[cooperjer]

I'll repeat what [MENTION=60210]jaelis[/MENTION] said about using advantage/disadvantage as you deem necessary. In one sense the shove or grapple ability check is taken as part of the Attack action; therefore, it feels appropriate to me to apply disadvantage in the same way it would be applied to an attack roll.

 

[thethain]

The DM can also decide that circumstances influence a roll in one direction or the other and grant advantage or impose disadvantage as a result.

 

[Soul Stigma]

I tend to think about the fiction at hand. Shoving from a prone position is not very effective so would have to be at disadvantage.

Invisibility - unless there's reason to think the acting creature can "see" or "accurately sense the location of" the invisible target, disadvantage applies.

Obviously none of this is RAW, just DM judgment based on established fiction.

 

[jaelis]

Invisibility - unless there's reason to think the acting creature can "see" or "accurately sense the location of" the invisible target, disadvantage applies.

For instance, I wouldn't apply disadvantage to a shove if you already have the invisible creature grappled.

 

[Aenorgreen]

I think shoving away from prone position would not be at disadvantage, both by rule and logic. If a person is prone, they can push away using their legs, which is stronger than arms. It would also seem reasonable to me that they could do some sort of scissor move to take an opponent prone. So I have no problem with a prone creature not getting disadvantage at these moves.

 

[KarinsDad]

I tend to think about the fiction at hand. Shoving from a prone position is not very effective so would have to be at disadvantage.

Unless using your legs to shove. That's a fairly common staple of action movies and of just plain horsing around. It seems to work quite often in real life.

 

[Soul Stigma]

For instance, I wouldn't apply disadvantage to a shove if you already have the invisible creature grappled.

Right. In that case the precise location is known.

 

[Soul Stigma]

Unless using your legs to shove. That's a fairly common staple of action movies and of just plain horsing around. It seems to work quite often in real life.

After two people posted similar sentiments, I went back to the OP and realized I missed the word "grappler" as the target of the shove. I originally read "attacker". I agree if the target of the shove is that close (really on top of you) then there would be no disadvantage to shove since A: you can use your legs and B: the floor is strong leverage. Thanks for the corrections!