Attack spreadsheets.....

[kreynolds]

And I suppose the idea that a "hero" can deal out a buttload of damage with every single hit is simply crazy? Nah.

How the player approaches min/max isn't a very good way to judge them as a player. They might want to be the biggest, baddest, no personality havin' dude on the block, but they just might also want to truly create the "hero" that they want to play.

 

[lambdaZUG]

Basically, asking for someone to trot out the "hardcore math" behind combat... and this is presumeably so that they can make decisions for their character. There can be only one intent of such a chart - deliberately maximizing the total damage they dish out.

That - is playing the numbers, odds, or "rolls" as opposed to the "role" of a character.

This is a bit misleading. It is akin to reccommending to someone that when he goes to the pony races, he ought to place his bets according to which horse's name he likes best, and what his favourite colour is. This being a game with a not insignificant stochastic component, it would be ill advised, indeed, to ignore that component as it would be to ignore the social, story and creative aspects. I would encourage all players to consider each portion an akin amount because that is a way to achieve balance between these aspects. That said, there are games out there which lack such a probabilistic component, (and some of which are quite good games) but D&D is not one of them.

To say nothing of your reviling, out of hand, a poster who asked a simple, innocent question.

 

[hong]

This being a game with a not insignificant stochastic component, it would be ill advised, indeed, to ignore that component as it would be to ignore the social, story and creative aspects.

Gary, is that you?


Hong "that hot tongue action... unmistakable!" Ooi

 

[gamecat]

I think I have this munchkin argument figured out: People who want some semblance of power in a character deserve derision. Any sane player only wants a 1st level commoner, as the PHB classes are too "munchkin" for them...

 

[kreynolds]

I think I have this munchkin argument figured out: People who want some semblance of power in a character deserve derision. Any sane player only wants a 1st level commoner, as the PHB classes are too "munchkin" for them...

LOL

 

[gariig]

Munchkinism in my own way

To help out what Munchkinism is, it's really thrown around too much on these boards. There are some things that are blatant Munchkin, such as the 1 level of Ranger for TWF/Ambi and that's all you take, or 1 level of Barbarian for Rage/Fast move. True, Munchkinism is breaking the spirit of the laws(such as taking 1 level of a class just for certain abilities) or making a character that is beyond the power level of the game(IE, the one person PC). Now, having a character that can kill with just a look sounds Munchkin, but if everyone else can do it then it's prfectly balanced within the context of the game.

Now taking feats and what not to maximize effectiveness really isn't Munchkin. If you are doing archery, you shouldn't take your first feat as Run, Endurance, and Toughness and forget about the feats that help you become a better Archer, that's just plain stupid. So you really need to balance the "Roll" and "Role" playing aspects of 3E. Also, your DM should keep you in check with what you can and can not do and keep "Munchkinism" down. I hope this sheds some light on the subject.

Gariig

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Munchkinism in my own way

Now, having a character that can kill with just a look sounds Munchkin, but if everyone else can do it then it's prfectly balanced within the context of the game.

There's a very appropriate term for that strategy. It's called "metagaming", and it's a poor solution to the problem if performed too often, especially so if constantly.

 

[The_lone_gunman]

Metagaming? How is that metagaming? I thought metagaming was using knowledge that you have but your character in the game does not have....ie: I have read the Monster Manual, and thus I know that Trolls are damaged by Fire and acid, but my lvl 1 thief, who has never heard of a troll, does not, but he makes the statement "Guys, thats a troll, they have 5hp/rd regeneration and are vulnerable to fire and acid!"


TLG

 

[kreynolds]

Metagaming? How is that metagaming? I thought metagaming was using knowledge that you have but your character in the game does not have....ie: I have read the Monster Manual, and thus I know that Trolls are damaged by Fire and acid, but my lvl 1 thief, who has never heard of a troll, does not, but he makes the statement "Guys, thats a troll, they have 5hp/rd regeneration and are vulnerable to fire and acid!"


TLG

As described in the DMG, "metagaming" also happens when one or more of your players gains access to an Invisibility or Improved Invisibility magic item, yet nearly every single creature/enemy NPC they encounter has the ability to See Invisibile. That's also "metagaming".

Basically, here's the short definition.

1) When a player jumps out of character to access outside knowledge for the express purpose of jumping back into said character that is not aware of said knowledge and the player intends to use said knowledge. (ok, maybe that definition sucked, but I did my best, and it was kinda fun too )
2) Any time the DM feels the need to be a total jackass and equip every single NPC with equipment to counter the players' equipment, or create/modify monsters with special abilities that counter the players' equipment.

See?

 

[Garmorn]

Wouldn't that be helping blatant Munchkinism? -

Actualy this is a great DM tool. The uses I have found for it include insuring my NPC are not do powerfull or not powerfull in melee or missile combat. figuring out good tactics for some of them and also checking out weapon combinations that might or might not over whelm the PC's.

Not need with ever NPC but usefull for that rare one that you want to hit a lot but not do alot of damage or hit rarely but do masive damage. Or any other unusal set up.