Attacking a willing target

[ForbidenMaster]

To clarify, obviously it is not against the rules to attack your ally when the power says the target is one creature. But to make that attack an auto hit *if you want* is bad news.

For example, until recently I had a Gnome Illusionist with Phantom Bolt as an At-Will. We also have a Kalashtar Paladin in the party. If I wanted, I could attack him with Phantom Bolt, do 1d6+5 damage, and slide him 1. Were I guaranteed to hit, I would know that scooting him out of the aura of 3 Chillborn zombies would save him 15 hitpoints, at a cost of 1d6 damage (since he resists psychic damage). If it is guaranteed to hit, I would do it every time, and that would be. . .stupid. If I only have a normal chance to hit, I would probably choose another action that I know will be successful. Always being able to slide him out of danger from 10 squares away doesn't work for me.

Jay

But it is against the rules to benefit from it.

When a power has an effect that occurs upon hitting a target—or reducing a target to 0 hit points—the power functions only when the target in question is a meaningful threat. Characters can gain no benefit from carrying a sack of rats in hopes of healing their allies by hitting the rats.

 

[Turtlejay]

While I like that rule, is there a source for it?

Jay

 

[DracoSuave]

While I like that rule, is there a source for it?

Jay

The DMG. This rule is one of the main rules a DM has in his arsenal.

 

[Trebor62]

How about granting the same bonus to the monsters that you grant to your ally when they attack you and you desire to be hit. i.e. you are rendering yourself vulnerable to friend and foes alike.

 

[HealingAura]

When a power has an effect that occurs upon hitting a target—or reducing a target to 0 hit points—the power functions only when the target in question is a meaningful threat. Characters can gain no benefit from carrying a sack of rats in hopes of healing their allies by hitting the rats.

The power in question is Chill Wind, an area burst 1 within 10 squares attack that targets each creature in burst. What about area or close powers that only deal damage (damage is their only effect that occurs upon hitting the target)? Can an ally be targeted by them?

If no, I see no point in the War Wizardry feat from FRPG.

If yes, then what happens when you damage an almost-bloodied razorclaw shifter who is about to make a jump over a broken bridge? Can he use Razorclaw Shifting racial power to gain 2 speed?


I believe the hitting rats situation has been banned in D&D since you can do it during a rest and it requires almost no investment from you. Attacking an ally during combat means you not only damage a friendly party member (thus decrease your chance of surviving), you also spend a standard action for doing it.

 

[ForbidenMaster]

The power in question is Chill Wind, an area burst 1 within 10 squares attack that targets each creature in burst. What about area or close powers that only deal damage (damage is their only effect that occurs upon hitting the target)? Can an ally be targeted by them?

If no, I see no point in the War Wizardry feat from FRPG.

If yes, then what happens when you damage an almost-bloodied razorclaw shifter who is about to make a jump over a broken bridge? Can he use Razorclaw Shifting racial power to gain 2 speed?


I believe the hitting rats situation has been banned in D&D since you can do it during a rest and it requires almost no investment from you. Attacking an ally during combat means you not only damage a friendly party member (thus decrease your chance of surviving), you also spend a standard action for doing it.

I think that it is more than clear that "effect" does not mean damage. I also think that it is more than clear that the rule isnt in reference to long causalities that may down the line have benefit, but in fact in reference to "when a power has an effect that occurs upon hitting a target, or reducing a target to 0 hit points."

Lets put this whole concept of hitting a willing target into context. If I am a cleric and most of my party is hurt, why not have them gather around the fighter and I, using nothing but an unarmed attack with a d4, hit him with Strengthen the Faithful doing

2[W] + Strength modifier damage, and you and each ally adjacent to the target can spend a healing surge. Add your Charisma modifier to the hit points regained.

So for 2d4+STR (most likely low) damage to one character I can heal the rest of the party. Even at the cost of a standard action, are you telling me that isnt worth it?

Fact of that matter is that this is pretty much as clear as a "dont try to stink up the game with cheese" rule as there is. Its clear that powers are supposed to be beneficial when they hit enemies and a detriment when they hit allies. Having a character want to get hit in order to gain some sort of benefit is totally contrary to that and is as good as an example of a bag of rats that there is.

And to Turtlejay, DMG page 40, Legitimate Targets.

 

[Garthanos]

Blood sacrefice

The priest of the Raven queen draws a ritual dagger and cuts the back side of her martyr allies hands and captures the droplets in a cup raising it in the air... light begins to flicker on the droplets and a red glow rises in the eyes of her allies and they all finish the rite with praise to the raven queen... glowing with more vigor and will to fight on than ever before...

Even the wounds on the martyrs hands seem to have faded ... to scars and achey skin.


Sorry sometimes me imagination makes a bad boy out of me. Where did that bag of rats go?

 

[Turtlejay]

And to Turtlejay, DMG page 40, Legitimate Targets.

Thanks. Since I agree with you, I just wanted to make sure my side is well documented and represented.

Your example is spot on a reason why not only should tactics like this fail, but they shouldn't be encouraged by suggesting that you *always* hit when you attack an ally.

That being said, you can attack allies. If you scorching burst, and there is a friend in there, he is going to get singed. The rule is pretty clear about targeting allies, or other things, specifically for triggering an effect. It wants to prevent cheese like you only hitting an ally with Chill Wind, and having him slide and attack for free. If your area includes an enemy, I think I would rule that okay, but you certainly wouldn't get any sort of bonus to attack him.

Jay

 

[Garthanos]

too much moving around in real combat if you try and grant an ally combat advantage against you ... I can easily see you granting combat advantage to everybody in reach of you.

That said with the game binding attacks and healing so tightly... blood magic is bound to be an interpretation ... the blood of volunteers is potent you know.

 

[Chimerasame]

Targeting an ally to proc an incidental benefit which is not a part of the attack itself (such as Healing Strike) doesn't work, but I would say that targeting an ally to slide them somewhere is fair enough. If you want to waste a standard action and do a little damage to your friend in order to slide him a square, then more power to you.

I might rule that friendly/willing forced movement doesn't count as forced, and therefore would trigger oas if it's moving out of a threatened square. Not sure about that.'

In general, I'd say that if you're trying to hit a willing target, then 5+neck item enhancement, for nads, or 5+armor+enhancement, for ac, is fair. 5 because that's 10 minus the five point penalty for helplessness.