Attacking Grapplers

[pbd]

Where/what are the rules on attacking an enemy engaged in a grapple with someone else (not one grappler attacking the other). I could have sworn I saw it before in the PHB, but can't find it again.

I think it provides a base 50/50 chance of hitting either one, then modifies it for size difference right?

 

[dcollins]

It's just a footnote to PHB "Table 8-8: Attack Roll Modifiers". Note that it's only for ranged weapons (and not modified by size that I can see).

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Note that it's only for ranged weapons (and not modified by size that I can see).

Note, also, that's it's not really modified by anything!

The footnote says, "Determine randomly," with no actual guidance given on what that means. It could mean a straight 50 / 50 chance of hitting either grappler, or it could just as easily mean a weighted chance by size category, or, heck, a 1% chance to miss your target.

Those are all "determined randomly."

 

[LordBOB]

i think that it could be allowed. If you spent, lets say ,1 round focusing on your target than you shouldnt have a problem with hitting.

I would take away the Dexterity to AC and maybe the Dodge bonus if they had one.

If your a Rouge and your trying to sneak attack than i also think you could do that since the grapplers primary concern is the oppenent hes got his hands on and not you.

 

[Whimsical]

Well, you lose your DEX bonus to nongrappled foes when you are grappled.

My "roll randomly" formula goes like this:

Each grappler has an equal share to be attacked, with the following modifiers.

• The smallest creatures determines the base share.
• For every size category increase from the base creature, your share doubles.
• If you are the one being targeted, your share doubles.

So the simplest scenario of two equal-sized grapplers, the targeted grappler would have a 67% chance of being hit, and the other grappler would have a 33% chance of being hit.

I also house rule that precision damage does not happen if you don't strike your intended target.

Note that this only occurs when the grappled target is being targeted by a ranged attack, and only when he is grappled and not when he is pinned.

 

[kjenks]

I also house rule that precision damage does not happen if you don't strike your intended target.

Note that this only occurs when the grappled target is being targeted by a ranged attack, and only when he is grappled and not when he is pinned.

That's no house rule. That's how the sneak attack rules read. Sneak attack only affects the target. If you hit someone other than the target (in a grapple, bull rush, Ellusive Target, whatever), there's no sneak attack damage.

 

[Infiniti2000]

That's no house rule. That's how the sneak attack rules read. Sneak attack only affects the target. If you hit someone other than the target (in a grapple, bull rush, Ellusive Target, whatever), there's no sneak attack damage.

Absolutely its a houserule. If you fire a ranged weapon from less than 30ft away and hit your ally, you do sneak attack damage to him. Note that you choose the target randomly first, then you roll to hit while noting that your target is denied his Dex to AC. Sneak attack. It's also a bad houserule in my opinion because it greatly favors the rogue archer and not the ranger archer. The ranger can't choose not to apply his favored enemy bonus (in the admittedly highly unlikely event that his ally is actually a favored enemy), or other bonuses like strength, etc.

 

[Whimsical]

My house rule covers the ranger's favored enemy damage also.

It may be unbalancing, but it is logical. You are aiming at the sweet spots of your oponent. No one else.

 

[pbd]

Absolutely its a houserule. If you fire a ranged weapon from less than 30ft away and hit your ally, you do sneak attack damage to him. Note that you choose the target randomly first, then you roll to hit while noting that your target is denied his Dex to AC. Sneak attack. It's also a bad houserule in my opinion because it greatly favors the rogue archer and not the ranger archer. The ranger can't choose not to apply his favored enemy bonus (in the admittedly highly unlikely event that his ally is actually a favored enemy), or other bonuses like strength, etc.

Actually it is a very reasonable house rule, if a house rule at all.

From the SRD on sneak attack (the first sentence):
Sneak Attack

If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she CAN strike a vital spot for extra damage.
(emphasis mine)

The rouge is not trying to target the vital spots of their ally are they? I would defiantly also not require a ranger to tagt the vital areas of a friend's anatomy. Why would they, they weren't really aiming at them anyway, they just accidantally moved into the line of fire.

 

[azhrei_fje]

IMC we don't allow a rogue to sneak attack grapplers. Our theory is that sneak attacks are precision damage and how can there be precision damage if you can't even know in advance which target you're going to hit?! Another way to look at it is to say that the chance to randomly hit a creature is a miss chance...