Attacks Thru Summons

[Xyrlove Woodsoul]

I realize that summons do not benefit from tempoary attacks bonuses or penalties; and I realize that in order for something to be considered a bonus or penalty, then the word "bonus" or "penalty" must be used in its entry, but I'm still confused as to what works, and what does not work, when a summon attacks.
For example, if a player with psychic lock makes an attack with his summons that does psychic damage, does the psychic lock feat apply, being that it is not a bonus or penalty to the summons itself, rather, a penalty to the creature hit.
Also, what about something like a tiefling's racial ability, bloodhunt? Being that it is not a tempoary bonus or penalty, rather, it is a conditional bonus.
Or something like, Bel's Impending Victory, which gives allies a +1 to hit if one hits a bloodied enemy, being, again, that it is not a bonus or penalty to the summons itself, rather, it is a penalty to the enemy hit?

 

[aurance]

Neither Psychic Lock nor Bloodhunt apply; a summoned creature counts as your ally, not as you (Arcane Power p.98).

For the same reason, Bel's Impending Victory would apply.

 

[Xyrlove Woodsoul]

Do you get to use your implement bonus to attacks made by the summons if the summon power has the implement keyword? Or any implement bonuses such as, crit dice, high crit range, etc? Or what about paragon features like, Serene Will?

 

[spayne]

Neither Psychic Lock nor Bloodhunt apply

This is incorrect.

The rules say that "If a summoning power allows the summoned creature to attack, the summoner makes an attack through the creature, as specified in the power description." ( Rules Compendium page 121)

The summoner is the one making the attack. Anything that applies to the summoner's attacks (apart from temporary bonuses and penalties) apply to attacks through a summoned creature.

 

[DracoSuave]

Neither Psychic Lock nor Bloodhunt apply; a summoned creature counts as your ally, not as you (Arcane Power p.98).

For the same reason, Bel's Impending Victory would apply.

While a summoned creature is considered your ally, that point is irrelevant to the question at hand.

When a summoned creature is attacking, you are considered to be making the attack for any and all purposes. (Arcane Power p.99, When a summoned creature attacks, you are making an attack through the creature.)

If you have Psychic Lock, then you are considered attacking when the creature makes an attack, and therefore it will activate for you. If you have an implement, the implement keyword on the power will allow you to add its bonuses to any attack rolls involved with that power, and as you are attacking with that implement, you can add its bonuses.

The only thing to remember is that you must use the implement when you first use the power, for that is what the implement keyword allows. You cannot switch implements in the middle of any power's duration for that power. The implement keyword only allows the bonuses for the implement you use the power with, and that specifically is the activation of the power. Once used, that implement applies to anything that power does from then on.

 

[Xyrlove Woodsoul]

What if the summoner is weakened, is the summons weakened?
Can summons be dazed, stunned, weakened, etc. themselves, independentally from the summoner?

 

[mudlock]

I think it's time you buy either the Rules Compendium or Arcane Power.

 

[Xyrlove Woodsoul]

I'm looking at the arcane power right now, and I dont see an answer, dude.


Mod Edit: We are going to assume for the moment that was an accidental misspelling. But I should still take a moment to remind everyone that EN World is a family place, and vulgarity is not allowed. We also expect folks to treat other posters with respect, so insulting vulgarity is a good way to get yourself a vacation. ~ Umbran

 

[Aulirophile]

Is Weakened a penalty or a bonus? This is really the only question you need to ask yourself when you're wondering if it applies, just read whatever it is real quick and see if the word "penalty" or "bonus" shows up.

Weakened applies, it isn't a penalty or a bonus.

Yes summons can be dazed/stunned/weakened separately from the summoner (dazing a summon is usually pointless, hehe).

 

[DracoSuave]

Is Weakened a penalty or a bonus? This is really the only question you need to ask yourself when you're wondering if it applies, just read whatever it is real quick and see if the word "penalty" or "bonus" shows up.

Weakened applies, it isn't a penalty or a bonus.

Yes summons can be dazed/stunned/weakened separately from the summoner (dazing a summon is usually pointless, hehe).

Yep.

The key is understanding that BOTH the summons and the summoner are attacking, so things that trigger or modify either, outside of temp bonuses/penalties, fully apply.

The other key is that summons don't take actions other than instinctive actions, so conditions that deny them actions do not work. Dazing, as noted before, is pointless, but so is stunning them. As well, giving them the ability to do things as a free action will -also- not work as they are not permitted to take those free actions.