Pirate Queen Eliza
First Post
Eridanis said:
I fail to see how she was being condescending.
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The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Author (and artist) of The Book of Erotic Fantasy
- Thread starter GKestrel
- Start date
- Status
I fail to see how she was being condescending.
Eridanis
Bard 7/Mod (ret) 10/Mgr 3
Piratecat said:
Ah, I didn't know that. I think I was more worked up about her making her comments here, and then sharing her reply elsewhere, and took that to be condesention. My bad, and my apologies.
Just got back from a nice, calm walk with my daughter. I should have known to taken the walk before posting, and not after. I would have posted in my normal calm frame of mind.
Still won't buy the book, though. Life's too short.
First of all, plenty of well-expressed support for free speech and open minds in the posts thus far, so let me just add a nod, an assent and a thumbs up to that.
I feel I must add a small reality check for those who are deeply concerned about the reputation of RPG's among the Normals.
It doesn't get much worse than what it is, guys. I don't want to turn this into a rant about respect and understanding, but let's face it, we don't get much. A small press boobie book (if the worst fears of its detractors are at all founded) is not going to tip the scales of public opinion significantly. I am glad that some of you feel that gaming has somehow achieved enough social acceptance that there is something at risk here, but from my seat, I ain't seeing it.
If this did get the attention of the mainstream and cause a stir, that's fine by me. I like sticking it to the squares. They are so cute when they are all blustery and indignant.
And in closing, let me add, for the "Won't someone please think of the children?" camp: I guarantee you that your kids, with a minimum of initiative, have as much access to as much porn as they want, in whatever flavors they want. I would think you would be relieved if their inclinations were towards soft-focus nipple shots of buxom elves.
I feel I must add a small reality check for those who are deeply concerned about the reputation of RPG's among the Normals.
It doesn't get much worse than what it is, guys. I don't want to turn this into a rant about respect and understanding, but let's face it, we don't get much. A small press boobie book (if the worst fears of its detractors are at all founded) is not going to tip the scales of public opinion significantly. I am glad that some of you feel that gaming has somehow achieved enough social acceptance that there is something at risk here, but from my seat, I ain't seeing it.
If this did get the attention of the mainstream and cause a stir, that's fine by me. I like sticking it to the squares. They are so cute when they are all blustery and indignant.
And in closing, let me add, for the "Won't someone please think of the children?" camp: I guarantee you that your kids, with a minimum of initiative, have as much access to as much porn as they want, in whatever flavors they want. I would think you would be relieved if their inclinations were towards soft-focus nipple shots of buxom elves.
hunter1828
Butte Hole Surfer
Barcode said:
Ain't that the truth! I collect fantasy art in electronic format from various web sites which I print and use as illustrations in my campaigns. Some of what I gather is erotic in nature, perhaps about 20%-25% of the total. Of the erotic about 15%-20% is "explicit" in nature. So, it's out there for any kid to jump online and search for. This book won't have anything in it not available online, that's for sure.
hunter1828
Last edited:
s/LaSH
First Post
My thoughts:
Can this be seen as demeaning towards women? Yes. Who have all the people working on the project that posted here been (including the author)? Women. Either society as a whole has brainwashed them culturally, or it's pretty harmless.
Personally, I think rabid promotion of mindless sex is bad, but this isn't rabid at all (as fas as I can tell). It looks OK to me.
Will I buy it? Probably not, because I'm poor - unless it's got some very esoteric subjects in it that could enhance my group (which is me and two other guys, each of whom plays two characters, thus romance is pretty much dead and somewhere at the bottom of a canal, much to my chagrin).
Would this product exist in my ideal world? Probably not, for a long string of reasons starting with 'nobody responds to appeals to animal instincts any more'. But the next two steps into that ideal world include a Borg-like collective consciousness and the abolition of money and national boundaries. Perhaps the best reason you wouldn't need it in that world would be: "Anyone can get it because the moment someone imagines such a product the collective knows all". I think it would be a great way for the world to confront itself. The children are something I hadn't thought about until now, however. Hmmm...
That's all I have to say on the topic, I guess.
Can this be seen as demeaning towards women? Yes. Who have all the people working on the project that posted here been (including the author)? Women. Either society as a whole has brainwashed them culturally, or it's pretty harmless.
Personally, I think rabid promotion of mindless sex is bad, but this isn't rabid at all (as fas as I can tell). It looks OK to me.
Will I buy it? Probably not, because I'm poor - unless it's got some very esoteric subjects in it that could enhance my group (which is me and two other guys, each of whom plays two characters, thus romance is pretty much dead and somewhere at the bottom of a canal, much to my chagrin).
Would this product exist in my ideal world? Probably not, for a long string of reasons starting with 'nobody responds to appeals to animal instincts any more'. But the next two steps into that ideal world include a Borg-like collective consciousness and the abolition of money and national boundaries. Perhaps the best reason you wouldn't need it in that world would be: "Anyone can get it because the moment someone imagines such a product the collective knows all". I think it would be a great way for the world to confront itself. The children are something I hadn't thought about until now, however. Hmmm...
That's all I have to say on the topic, I guess.
Catching Up on Thread
Gentlefolk,
I've found that logging into ENWorld can be difficult. My internet connection regularly reported to me yesterday that there were too many users on. A happy dilemna, but still one that limited my ability to contribute to the conversation.
After getting on the messages boards again (rather sorry to find them down yesterday), I find a plethora of responses.
Meanwhile, I've been continuing the conversation at andycollins.net's boards.
http://pub36.ezboard.com/fgameschat19968frm1.showMessage?topicID=118.topic
And from what I've read thus far here, I've been answering many of the same questions.
It's a quieter board, and easy for me to access. So, I've better ability to answer questions that are directed to me and the work under discussion.
Please read through my answers there and feel free to ask again any questions that I haven't yet addressed. I'll be happy to tell you what I know or think and frankly tell you when I can't provide an answer either from ignorance or an inability to share information that belongs to someone else.
Gwendolyn Kestrel
"Unashamed."
Gentlefolk,
I've found that logging into ENWorld can be difficult. My internet connection regularly reported to me yesterday that there were too many users on. A happy dilemna, but still one that limited my ability to contribute to the conversation.
After getting on the messages boards again (rather sorry to find them down yesterday), I find a plethora of responses.
Meanwhile, I've been continuing the conversation at andycollins.net's boards.
http://pub36.ezboard.com/fgameschat19968frm1.showMessage?topicID=118.topic
And from what I've read thus far here, I've been answering many of the same questions.
It's a quieter board, and easy for me to access. So, I've better ability to answer questions that are directed to me and the work under discussion.
Please read through my answers there and feel free to ask again any questions that I haven't yet addressed. I'll be happy to tell you what I know or think and frankly tell you when I can't provide an answer either from ignorance or an inability to share information that belongs to someone else.
Gwendolyn Kestrel
"Unashamed."
jdavis
First Post
Man I'm really becoming a glutton for punishment here. Threads are growing at a alarming rate on the subject and I just can't keep up. Do we have any actual facts on this yet, aside from it will have pictures and the press release was written by PT Barnum? It's getting tiresome just to weed through all the hype to figure out what is going on.
Oh and just to cover both the children and D&D and the reputation of D&D being ruined post, my 11 year old daughter thinks people who play D&D are wierdos and totally uncool but she still thinks NSINC is cool so what does she know. What's the effect of this going to be on children, well slim and none. If it ever reaches store shelves then it may cause a little tussle but if it is sold over the internet then it will probably never even be known to exist by many of them. What I find so disturbing here is just how little faith some people have in children, and I wonder if some of the more vocal protesters even have children. Children can be remarkably intelligent if you actually set down and talk to them about stuff, the first time you start telling them that something is forbidden to them they will bee line for it once you turn your back but if you actually spend some time talking to your child like they were human beings then you will find they can handle quite a bit. As far as damaging D&D's reputation well I hate to inform you but most people don't think people who play D&D know what boobs look like, heck this can't hurt the reputation as you can't really go much lower than wierdo and freak. D&D is old news nobody really cares anymore it's not evil or taboo anymore were just sort of all lumped together with comic book fans and sci fi lovers, the general public thinks we are all the comic book guy from the Simpsons anyway, this will fall well beneath the radar. Oh and that really was a terrible press release, I don't think that can be stated enough.
Oh and just to cover both the children and D&D and the reputation of D&D being ruined post, my 11 year old daughter thinks people who play D&D are wierdos and totally uncool but she still thinks NSINC is cool so what does she know. What's the effect of this going to be on children, well slim and none. If it ever reaches store shelves then it may cause a little tussle but if it is sold over the internet then it will probably never even be known to exist by many of them. What I find so disturbing here is just how little faith some people have in children, and I wonder if some of the more vocal protesters even have children. Children can be remarkably intelligent if you actually set down and talk to them about stuff, the first time you start telling them that something is forbidden to them they will bee line for it once you turn your back but if you actually spend some time talking to your child like they were human beings then you will find they can handle quite a bit. As far as damaging D&D's reputation well I hate to inform you but most people don't think people who play D&D know what boobs look like, heck this can't hurt the reputation as you can't really go much lower than wierdo and freak. D&D is old news nobody really cares anymore it's not evil or taboo anymore were just sort of all lumped together with comic book fans and sci fi lovers, the general public thinks we are all the comic book guy from the Simpsons anyway, this will fall well beneath the radar. Oh and that really was a terrible press release, I don't think that can be stated enough.
Attachments
Well, since the book is months away from release, and what we know so far is only waht has been posted on the Net. I am not sure that we fully appreciate what this book may or may not contain. Based on some of the tidbits we have gathered so far. Here are my uninformed, sarcastic opinions about this new book:
Tantric sex game mechanics (or some variation thereof).
Just think, after a couple hours of ritualistic hanky-panky you can achieve the same effect as Ethereal Jaunt, Contact Other Plane and/or Gate. Or maybe, instead of memorizing spells, using the power of your mind, or just because you can, you ritualistically have sex to prepare your fireball and or cure light wounds? Oh wait, I bet it must have some new spells and prestige classes as well. No matter that they are likely to be pretty much the same as existing spells and/or classes/PrCs, just with a minor twist. Heaven knows, there just aren’t enough books out there with new spells, PrCs, or magic system variants.
Yep, can’t wait for the book to come out.
Pregnancy.
Great! Another way for me to punish my players when they do something I think is wrong or inappropriate. I mean I could talk to them about their character’s behavior, but why when I can just make their characters pregnant. That will teach them! After all, it won’t be any different than them finding cursed magical items (offspring being in the same vein as a cursed magical items, after all). On the flip side, when they want their character to be pregnant, but misbehaving, I can just hide behind the rules. After all, if they weren’t misbehaving and wanted to be pregnant, I would just let them be pregnant, wouldn’t I. I bet it will even have a nice percentage breakdown. It’s way to difficult to just grab a number out of the air.
It might even be introducing the “Sort-of-Pregnant” Feat or possibly the Profession (midwife) or maybe the Lamaze skill…you think? I bet it also covers things like creatures with more than one sex, or that have the males as the ones who get pregnant. You know, all the science fiction novels and TV shows (Last night’s Enterprise, for example) that have covered these topics just isn’t enough. Without this book, I might have to actually use some imagination to bring these over into a fantasy setting.
I don’t know how I played D&D for so many years without this book.
Touch on Fetishes
See Tantric Sex Mechanics above.
Can’t get enough of those good old crunchy rules to slow my game down even further.
Seduction
Yeah, the current, Bluff and/or Diplomacy check mechanic that exists now is just too hard for me to understand. I hope they devote at least 10 pages explaining how it works and all of the possible outcomes.
Rules, must have rules!
Cross-breeding
You know my players are constantly discussing why there are no half-dwarves. Oh, sure, I came up with some lame excuse like the genetic make-up of dwarves is naturally incompatible with other races…unless of course magic is involved…which was tried, thus producing derro…so not many people have tried since. But unless I read it in a book somewhere that it is ok for me to use such an explanation, I just don’t feel good about myself.
After all if it isn’t in print, then it just not right.
Infusing Romantic Elements into D&D
Harlequin Romance d20 is a great idea! If that is what we are trying to achieve, however, why not just call it that…hmmm? Oh, that’s right, I forgot, the predominate gender in this little niche market that we all love so much is male. Females make up the predominate portion of the romance novel/film market, however. What we going to do about this? I know, let’s tie it to D&D with some nekkid pictures of elves. Yep, that will help move units.
********************************************
All sarcasm aside for a moment, this sole subject – “Infusing Romantic Elements into D&D” – might have some value. It will be interesting to see how it is covered. It wouldn’t really appeal to any of the players in my group, but it might to someone else. It will also be interesting to see the page ratio of this subject to everything else the book may or may not contain.
For the rest of it? My statements above may be proven to be unfair, but I’m am willing to bet that I am not far off the mark.
I really don’t see what the hubbub is all about. There seems to be quite a lot of attacking or defending something that, at least based on what we know now, deserves neither in my opinion. Granted we only have the vaguest idea about what the book actually covers but so far it sounds like what we have here is yet another twist on the “Complete Handbook” with pictures that might range anywhere from PG-13 to XXX. Big deal. Not exactly something to get uptight over, and not much to anticipate either since it is likely to add zilch to the average D&D campaign.
Unless you just want to look at Photoshop pictures of nekkid “elves”.
To sum up my opinion on just the idea of “The Book of Erotic Fantasy”:
Yawn… So, what else have you got?
Tantric sex game mechanics (or some variation thereof).
Just think, after a couple hours of ritualistic hanky-panky you can achieve the same effect as Ethereal Jaunt, Contact Other Plane and/or Gate. Or maybe, instead of memorizing spells, using the power of your mind, or just because you can, you ritualistically have sex to prepare your fireball and or cure light wounds? Oh wait, I bet it must have some new spells and prestige classes as well. No matter that they are likely to be pretty much the same as existing spells and/or classes/PrCs, just with a minor twist. Heaven knows, there just aren’t enough books out there with new spells, PrCs, or magic system variants.
Yep, can’t wait for the book to come out.
Pregnancy.
Great! Another way for me to punish my players when they do something I think is wrong or inappropriate. I mean I could talk to them about their character’s behavior, but why when I can just make their characters pregnant. That will teach them! After all, it won’t be any different than them finding cursed magical items (offspring being in the same vein as a cursed magical items, after all). On the flip side, when they want their character to be pregnant, but misbehaving, I can just hide behind the rules. After all, if they weren’t misbehaving and wanted to be pregnant, I would just let them be pregnant, wouldn’t I. I bet it will even have a nice percentage breakdown. It’s way to difficult to just grab a number out of the air.
It might even be introducing the “Sort-of-Pregnant” Feat or possibly the Profession (midwife) or maybe the Lamaze skill…you think? I bet it also covers things like creatures with more than one sex, or that have the males as the ones who get pregnant. You know, all the science fiction novels and TV shows (Last night’s Enterprise, for example) that have covered these topics just isn’t enough. Without this book, I might have to actually use some imagination to bring these over into a fantasy setting.
I don’t know how I played D&D for so many years without this book.
Touch on Fetishes
See Tantric Sex Mechanics above.
Can’t get enough of those good old crunchy rules to slow my game down even further.
Seduction
Yeah, the current, Bluff and/or Diplomacy check mechanic that exists now is just too hard for me to understand. I hope they devote at least 10 pages explaining how it works and all of the possible outcomes.
Rules, must have rules!
Cross-breeding
You know my players are constantly discussing why there are no half-dwarves. Oh, sure, I came up with some lame excuse like the genetic make-up of dwarves is naturally incompatible with other races…unless of course magic is involved…which was tried, thus producing derro…so not many people have tried since. But unless I read it in a book somewhere that it is ok for me to use such an explanation, I just don’t feel good about myself.
After all if it isn’t in print, then it just not right.
Infusing Romantic Elements into D&D
Harlequin Romance d20 is a great idea! If that is what we are trying to achieve, however, why not just call it that…hmmm? Oh, that’s right, I forgot, the predominate gender in this little niche market that we all love so much is male. Females make up the predominate portion of the romance novel/film market, however. What we going to do about this? I know, let’s tie it to D&D with some nekkid pictures of elves. Yep, that will help move units.
********************************************
All sarcasm aside for a moment, this sole subject – “Infusing Romantic Elements into D&D” – might have some value. It will be interesting to see how it is covered. It wouldn’t really appeal to any of the players in my group, but it might to someone else. It will also be interesting to see the page ratio of this subject to everything else the book may or may not contain.
For the rest of it? My statements above may be proven to be unfair, but I’m am willing to bet that I am not far off the mark.
I really don’t see what the hubbub is all about. There seems to be quite a lot of attacking or defending something that, at least based on what we know now, deserves neither in my opinion. Granted we only have the vaguest idea about what the book actually covers but so far it sounds like what we have here is yet another twist on the “Complete Handbook” with pictures that might range anywhere from PG-13 to XXX. Big deal. Not exactly something to get uptight over, and not much to anticipate either since it is likely to add zilch to the average D&D campaign.
Unless you just want to look at Photoshop pictures of nekkid “elves”.
To sum up my opinion on just the idea of “The Book of Erotic Fantasy”:
Yawn… So, what else have you got?
Caught Up
Okay. There. I'm caught up on the thread. Very interesting discussion in general with many folk voicing interesting, well-considered philosophies and commentary.
A few quick responses:
Kevin Kulp: Hi! Yeah, 12 years is it since we met? Gosh time flies! Neither of us were neophytes in the hobby back then either. Solidly over a decade since we met through gaming and we both seem to be as keen as ever on the hobby.
Eridanis: Gosh, not being up to post for less than two days and I'm "condescending." I accept the apology you proferred.
PirateQueenEliza: Looking forward to meeting you Friday and I'll bring a copy of my manuscript to date.
Wizardru: Good comments, and you direction of inquiry is not unlike the one I've pursued.
Now, here's what's what with me.
1) I don't own any part of Valar Project. I'm just one of the freelance writers involved in writing the text. I feel committed to the project because it's my words, my sweat, and my time. I'm writing for a flat fee and a small royalty. As for the royalty: If the product does well, it's not going to buy me a house or a car. It might fund my amazon.com habit for a month or let me catch up on a number of the cool d20 products that I've been too budget-concious to buy.
2) Consider the implications of point 1: I can't tell you much about the product because I'm just a freelancer. I don't own the company and I don't own the product. I'm trying to provide general information. Currently, I'm working with Valar Project to arrange for an excerpt or two to be posted so that folk who wish to can choose to assess the text themselves. Anthony seems agreeable and we'll be discussing the possibility tomorrow.
3) I didn't write the press release and was merely given a courtesy copy when Valar Project released it.
4) I didn't grant gamingreport.com an interview as some think. They reprinted information I posted on andycollins.net. What they did was absolutely fine. I just bridle at the accusations that I was being rude and neglectful to the folk here on ENWorld.
5) I work full-time and have a taxing freelance schedule in the evening. I don't have time to read and keep up on the many discussions on the many boards. I'd love to, but I can't.
6) To make my life simpler and to centralize a source of information, I'll be regularly reading and replying to andycollins.net. If you want to hear from me, that's where to find me.
Gwendolyn
"Unashamed."
Okay. There. I'm caught up on the thread. Very interesting discussion in general with many folk voicing interesting, well-considered philosophies and commentary.
A few quick responses:
Kevin Kulp: Hi! Yeah, 12 years is it since we met? Gosh time flies! Neither of us were neophytes in the hobby back then either. Solidly over a decade since we met through gaming and we both seem to be as keen as ever on the hobby.
Eridanis: Gosh, not being up to post for less than two days and I'm "condescending." I accept the apology you proferred.
PirateQueenEliza: Looking forward to meeting you Friday and I'll bring a copy of my manuscript to date.
Wizardru: Good comments, and you direction of inquiry is not unlike the one I've pursued.
Now, here's what's what with me.
1) I don't own any part of Valar Project. I'm just one of the freelance writers involved in writing the text. I feel committed to the project because it's my words, my sweat, and my time. I'm writing for a flat fee and a small royalty. As for the royalty: If the product does well, it's not going to buy me a house or a car. It might fund my amazon.com habit for a month or let me catch up on a number of the cool d20 products that I've been too budget-concious to buy.
2) Consider the implications of point 1: I can't tell you much about the product because I'm just a freelancer. I don't own the company and I don't own the product. I'm trying to provide general information. Currently, I'm working with Valar Project to arrange for an excerpt or two to be posted so that folk who wish to can choose to assess the text themselves. Anthony seems agreeable and we'll be discussing the possibility tomorrow.
3) I didn't write the press release and was merely given a courtesy copy when Valar Project released it.
4) I didn't grant gamingreport.com an interview as some think. They reprinted information I posted on andycollins.net. What they did was absolutely fine. I just bridle at the accusations that I was being rude and neglectful to the folk here on ENWorld.
5) I work full-time and have a taxing freelance schedule in the evening. I don't have time to read and keep up on the many discussions on the many boards. I'd love to, but I can't.
6) To make my life simpler and to centralize a source of information, I'll be regularly reading and replying to andycollins.net. If you want to hear from me, that's where to find me.
Gwendolyn
"Unashamed."
- Status
