AV2 Item power levels

[Ryujin]

Oh, I agree, the Badge is not earth shaking, though it could be pretty handy in certain situations. The real interesting part is some of the other items that similarly have relatively low level versions with some quite nasty properties or powers. A lot of them don't really depend on their enchantment bonus to make them useful and thus it seems to me there are quite a few that will end up in high level character's "golf bags".

A character that is built for charging and gets big damage increases, while being unstoppable by defenders? Sounds potentially Earth shattering to me. We had a Rogue in our party that had several items that added to charging damage. When combined with that badge and sneak attack damage I could see him pushing 80+ points a round, at pre-Paragon levels and without taking hits in return.

 

[borg286]

One item that seems unballancing is
Barrage Bracers (level 10 arm slot)
Property: when you hit with a melee attack you get a +1 bonus until end of your next turn against the same target.

The thing that's unbalancing here is the exponentially growing attack bonus with the number of attacks. Let's say you get 4 attacks / round. Let's assume you start off with a 50% chance to hit. It's quite possible that you get a nice streak of luck and all 4 hit, this means that your next turn you get a +4 to hit, and because your first one is now more likely to hit, your next one will get that more accurate and so on. pretty soon you have a +7 on each your last attacks of your turn. When attack bonuses are supposed to be as rare as they initially meant them, this one item skews things in the wrong direction.

Another arm slot is the universal iron armbands of power. But as we all know there's a break point between extra damage and extra to hit(like power attack analysis). if you have low damage the armbands are better, but only to a point, and the barrage bracers put that breakpoint cleanly at level 10 when you get them. Assume a striker is getting 20 DPR at level 10. thus a +1 to hit is equivalent to .05*20=+1 damage(+2 damage @ 50% hit rate). With only 1 attack the armbands are better than the bracers, but with 2 attacks the bracers give an effective +3 on each attack(+3(3*.05*20) effective DPR), and the armbands give +2 DPR(+4 damage @ 50% to hit). As most strikers rely on multi-attacks this puts the bracers ahead of iron armbands of power, which are already high on many DM's nerf list.

 

[jtrowell]

If I remember correctly, bonuses from the same source do not stack, so having several attacks would only increase the chace to get the bonus, but not allow it to be more than +1.

(sorry, don't have my books with me to quote a source)

 

[borg286]

If I remember correctly, bonuses from the same source do not stack, so having several attacks would only increase the chace to get the bonus, but not allow it to be more than +1.

(sorry, don't have my books with me to quote a source)

PHB 192 clearly states that untyped bonuses stack with themselves. I don't have AV2, but from where I read it it was untyped, thus stacks. If it is an item bonus then it is a nice balanced item.
If there's a place that says that bonuses from the same source don't stack please enlighten me, but I've never seen such a reference. As far as I know it's a common misconception based on the fact that most bonuses are typed than thus don't stack.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Its pretty tough to get more than 2 attacks per turn every turn. There are ways you can easily get more, but they pretty much either involve trigger conditions or limited resource usage (AP, item power use). It could be abusable though.

 

[borg286]

Its pretty tough to get more than 2 attacks per turn every turn. There are ways you can easily get more, but they pretty much either involve trigger conditions or limited resource usage (AP, item power use). It could be abusable though.

I agree with you for the average PC, but if you want to really crank out the damage twin strike, white lotus master riposte, wizard's fury, Eladrin swordmage advance, Spitting cobra stance, Rain of blows, Storm of blows, and quicksilver stance are the bread and butter of many optimization tactics. Getting static damage mods then finding ways to get 3-4 attacks is the path of most power gamers. This item adds to an already saturated field. I just hope it isn't as good as I've protrayed.

 

[Turtlejay]

One item that seems unballancing is
Barrage Bracers (level 10 arm slot)
Property: when you hit with a melee attack you get a +1 bonus until end of your next turn against the same target.

You solved most of the problem right there in the description of the power. It says until the end of your next turn. Characters might have a few 3 or 4 attack powers, but generally that translates to at most a +2. You go on to list a method to milk this for all it is worth using a series of powers/feats/items . . .but those were just as disgusting and obscene before this item existed.

Really, I should have seen this thread coming. Folks will look at any new material and decide the whole thing is either too powerful, or not powerful enough. Passing judgement on an entire sourcebook is a little extreme, and I haven't seen anything approaching the munchkin-friendly items that we found in the first AV (Iron Armbands, Bloodclaw, et al).

I imagine that usually this item will give a Ranger +1 or +2 on his next attack, and at the cost of not having the almost mandatory Iron Armbands of Powergaming equipped. Not Broken.

Jay

 

[keterys]

Weirdly, I actually thought that item was until the end of your current turn, not next. I may have misread it at the time, but it certainly did not seem to be in competition with the existing bracers when I read it.

 

[FireLance]

I imagine that usually this item will give a Ranger +1 or +2 on his next attack, and at the cost of not having the almost mandatory Iron Armbands of Powergaming equipped.

Mind you, I don't even consider a +2/+4/+6 item bonus to damage to be broken. PCs who want to increase their damage rolls will get it, but so what?

 

[Saeviomagy]

Mind you, I don't even consider a +2/+4/+6 item bonus to damage to be broken. PCs who want to increase their damage rolls will get it, but so what?

The fact that they're a near-mandatory boring static bonus (which 4e was supposed to be deliberately avoiding) makes them broken enough in my eyes.

As for the stuff being discussed from AV2: with the "charge to any square around a target" feat and the badge of the berserker, it totally destroys any tactical thought for playing a rogue. All AoO free, all the time. Also, always tedious (because you're always making basic attacks).

The barrage bracers could potentially be handing out a +2 or +3 bonus on each attack for a ranger or fighter using twin/dual strike, and let's face it, multi-hit powers and tactics did NOT need a boost.

But I do think magic items need a bit of a power up, there are so many items in AV1 and the core book I would never take, no matter what build I was playing.

It seems to me that this comes down to one of two things:
1. The item just sucks because it's badly designed. (although usually this just comes out to a version of point 2, but where the comparison item is "basic magic item of the same price")
2. The item sucks because there is a similar item for the same slot that is vastly superior.
3. The item sucks because someone decided to slap a random restriction on it (only bards, only sorcerors, only arcane powers etc).