Avenger Impressions

[Baumi]

Since the street date of PHP2 is here and the PDF is also available I wanted to ask about your opions of the Avenger since it was the only one that was not previewed (I know that there were some pictures of a character sheet but that info is very limited).

How does he compare to a ranger or rogue and what is his speciality..

 

[Jack7]

Well, to me, the only real Avenger left is Iron Man.

Now when it comes to the New Avengers I like most of those guys. But up until the past couple of years I was always a Justice League Man. I didn't even like the Avengers. But a couple of years or so ago they took off from my point of view, then after Cap got whacked they really started to gel.

All in all I'm very pro-Avenger now. Whenever I go into my local store nowadays I say, "make mine an Avenger."

I still read JLA a lot though too.

(Please forgive me Baumi, I'm in a very silly and happy mood this evening.)

As for what you're really asking about, I'm kinda interested too. I got a buddy who says he don't think much of it. Then again I haven't seen it yet myself.

 

[Gargazon]

To me, the Avenger is kinda... odd. It certainly has a strong controller vibe to some of its encounters and daily powers, but something about it just doesn't feel very... Strikery. Pretty much all the powers deal with either teleporting to your opponent, teleporting other opponents away from you and your opponent, or in one case phasing you and your opponent out of reality to duke it out undisturbed (this is an encounter power btw). The Avenger's utilities usually either deal with you reducing damage to yourself, healing damage to yourself, or moving to a better position to give damage to the enemy. You usually do the latter through teleporting.

It also seems rather odd that all the Avenger powers deal really small amounts of damage. Heck, they have a level 27 encounter power that does 1[W]. And stuns until the end of the next turn and can be used on a charge, but I don't really see how that makes up for it. And then it all goes a bit funny at level 29 when you get Final Oath and can hit a foe for 9[W]. I can see that large damage dies that the Avenger is throwing about and his large change to hit with Oath of Emnity being the reason for this, but it still looks odd on paper.

Also, the Avenger looks to be the toughest Striker available. Forget the Barbarian, the Avenger is the tough brute of the PHB2. His AC is awesome, and an Avenger in Hide with Improved Armour of Faith can make a Dwarf clad in Plate seem open to attack. His extra hit points further enhance this toughness.

I'm going to have to try the Avenger out a bit before I can make a final verdict, but right now he looks to be somewhat behind the Rogue and Ranger in DPR (though he certainly looks to be far more tough). I'm really interested in what some other people may think.

 

[Xris Robin]

He seems more like a harrier than a striker. Still, I think while his DPR is kinda low, he has some great synergy with say, the defender. If you use your Oath on someone who is also under a Swordmage's Aegis of Shielding, things get very interesting.

 

[Branduil]

I like the concept. He breaks the typical striker mold, which I think is a good thing, assuming he can still function in his role, just in a very different way. I'll be interested in how he works out as a member of a party.

 

[Errantocracy]

I like it; like Branduil said, it breaks the Striker mold but still does the job right (well, assuming it works as intended). I think perhaps there has been an incorrect impression of what the Striker was supposed to be - someone who does the most damage - when really he's supposed to be the best at taking down one opponent. That might explain why the Warlock has lower damage output than other strikers: he takes them out of the fight by controlling them. It certainly would explain the Avenger.

 

[grickherder]

They are a strange lot, those avengers. Unlike a lot of other strikers, their class feature damage bonus is very conditional. At first I thought they weren't high damage dealers, but after reading the first few levels of power, I think they're on par with other strikers-- but once again, with a less reliable class feature for bonus damage.

Of the strikers with a detectable secondary role, the avengers are the clearest-- controller. So many of their powers add effects to the enemy.

As for multiclassing, the sheer number of wisdom based classes give avengers a lot of options. Clerics are a natural fit as they have some good wisdom based attacks and also use holy symbols. Given the avenger's leanings towards two handed weapons, it's nice to be able to wear the implement. Pulling out a different implement isn't so bad though-- it's not like you have to put away a shield or weapon first. So there's still some interesting options with druid, shaman and invoker. Druid and invoker powers would certainly accentuate the clear controller leaning of the class. Cleric and Shaman would add some nice leader abilities (like healing and buffing). Other choices make for a bit of a MAD situation though.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

They also can have pretty good defenses, since with the Melee Training feat they can use Wis for basic attacks, so they only have to stack Wis, Dex/Int, and Con.

It freaks me out a bit that they wear cloth, but their AC isn't too bad at high heroic, such that taking Leather proficiency isn't really a no-brainer. With Improved Armor of Faith, the 9th level one I generated to possibly replace my bugbear rogue is at 24 AC, which isn't bad at all.

And they are going to be pretty accurate, what with their Oath of Enmity getting to roll twice, so their average DPR is going to be kinda high.

Brad

 

[Wik]

Yeah, the thing about these guys is that they WILL hit with their dailies. That's where the rogue can fall flat, in our experience. The rogue often misses with dailies. These guys will not.

I can imagine a multi-classed Avenger being AWESOME - imagine an avenger with barbarian powers rolling twice to hit with a daily!

 

[Cadfan]

His DPR is actually pretty comparable to other strikers. Accuracy counts for a lot. I haven't done the math at every level, but a basic executioner's axe avenger v twin bastard sword ranger comparison at level 1 comes up very, very even.

It just feels different, because most other strikers go kind of... miss, miss, BOOM! BOOM! DEAD! While the avenger goes, Hit. Hit. Hit. Hit. Dead now. I don't think it feels very dramatic, from my experience playing it. Certainly not as dramatic as a rogue who rolls a ridiculous pile of damage dice and adds up a huge hit. But mathematically the DPR is comparable and there's a certain... calm certainty with an Avenger that can be very fun. Sort of like, "I have the tools for this job, and the skill. All is proceeding according to plan."