D&D 5E Avenger in 4th to 5th

[Mouseferatu]

I would simply make the following changes:

Divine Defense: When wearing no armor and not using a shield, you add your Charisma modifier to your AC. This replaces the paladin's medium/heavy armor and shield proficiencies.

Dexterous Combatant: At second level, choose two versatile weapons, or one versatile and one two-handed weapon, that are not finesse weapons. You gain the ability to fight with these based on your Dex rather than Str, as though they were finesse weapons. This replaces the paladin's fighting style.

(Note that it says use use them as if they were finesse weapons, but not that they count as finesse weapons. This avoids multi-class abuse such as taking levels in rogue to sneak attack with a greatsword.)

Note that if you take advantage of these options, you must choose the Oath of Vengeance upon reaching 3rd level.

(All of the above off the top of my head, and not yet examined for hidden exploits or repercussions.)

 

[Tony Vargas]

The Avenger always seemed a bit redundant with the Avenging Paladin already in the game. In 5e, you can take any warrior-type and focus on DEX instead of STR. You wear lighter armor and use finesse weapons.

If it's the less armored, fast-moving pursuit Avenger you're going for, and it's mainly the concept and the lack of heavy armor that make the class for you, you're there.

If you care about the breadth of prayers or the class features of the Avenger, no, there's no way to do it 5e. If you're interested in the details of the mechanics, like OoE giving you the equivalent of Advantage every round, as someone said up-thread, see the Barbarian.

 

[Eric V]

I would simply make the following changes:

Divine Defense: When wearing no armor and not using a shield, you add your Charisma modifier to your AC. This replaces the paladin's medium/heavy armor and shield proficiencies.

Dexterous Combatant: At second level, choose two versatile weapons, or one versatile and one two-handed weapon, that are not finesse weapons. You gain the ability to fight with these based on your Dex rather than Str, as though they were finesse weapons. This replaces the paladin's fighting style.

(Note that it says use use them as if they were finesse weapons, but not that they count as finesse weapons. This avoids multi-class abuse such as taking levels in rogue to sneak attack with a greatsword.)

Note that if you take advantage of these options, you must choose the Oath of Vengeance upon reaching 3rd level.

(All of the above off the top of my head, and not yet examined for hidden exploits or repercussions.)

I was trying to figure out a way to avoid the complication you mention re: sneak attacking with greatswords. Thanks!

Thematically, I always preferred Avengers using Wisdom instead of Charisma for their divine abilities...do you think swapping Wis for Cha for all relevant abilities would make a difference?

 

[Mouseferatu]

I was trying to figure out a way to avoid the complication you mention re: sneak attacking with greatswords. Thanks!

Thematically, I always preferred Avengers using Wisdom instead of Charisma for their divine abilities...do you think swapping Wis for Cha for all relevant abilities would make a difference?

You're welcome.

Off the top of my head, I don't see a problem with swapping Wisdom in for Charisma on the avenger's/paladin's spells and other abilities. But that's just a quick knee-jerk answer; I haven't delved into it for any hidden pitfalls or broken synergies.

 

[Ahrimon]

Personally I would be very hesitant to allow anyone to use 2h weapons with Dex. It's the best stat as is. Give the Str characters something to be unique.

 

[Jeff Albertson]

On the topic of no armour, I would like a cleric with no armour proficiencies, a more cloistered deal, or Moses type.

 

[Jeff Albertson]

Personally I would be very hesitant to allow anyone to use 2h weapons with Dex. It's the best stat as is. Give the Str characters something to be unique.

Yeah, and if you swap Cha for Wis, suddenly the character has it's two highest scores in two of the most common saving throws, and both apply to their AC, all while wielding a heavy weapon (sort of diminishes the monk).

 

[axel9fr]

Thank your all your answers. you gives very interesting solutions. For the great sword I don't think to use it. For me if I want to play a sacred and steally hunter of evil minions it's very difficult to hide 2 meters of steel in street. The objective is to be inflitrate in people to search target and strike them with divine power. ^^!

 

[Jeff Albertson]

Thank your all your answers. you gives very interesting solutions. For the great sword I don't think to use it. For me if I want to play a sacred and steally hunter of evil minions it's very difficult to hide 2 meters of steel in street. The objective is to be inflitrate in people to search target and strike them with divine power. ^^!

Ah, now you've reminded me of the Holy Slayer, the 4th Ed Avenger is known for wielding airplane-wings.

 

[Theovis]

Off the top of my head, I don't see a problem with swapping Wisdom in for Charisma on the avenger's/paladin's spells and other abilities. But that's just a quick knee-jerk answer; I haven't delved into it for any hidden pitfalls or broken synergies.

It's not a huge deal, but it does mean they get more focus in Wisdom which is one of the three primary saving throws in the game. Since Charisma is a popular dump-stat, moving abilities away from it might be construed as an advantage of sorts.