BAB vs AC?

[PolterGhost]

You know, BAB seems to scale with level while AC doesn't. I wonder why that is. Looking at monster stats vs PC progression, it seems that BAB completely beats out AC after a couple of levels, making wearing armor an almost moot point.

Is this actually true through people's games? Our games generally don't seem to run into this speed bump due to our power levels (very low) so I don't have actual game experience with this.

What ways are there to circumvent the issue since AC boosting items seem to cost so much?

 

[Aus_Snow]

HP do though.

If you go messing with AC, you'll have to take that, and maybe other things, into account.

Not to say it's a bad idea, mind you. It's one of the many changes I made, fwiw.


edit: But wearing armour's hardly "a moot point"! Try going without your enchanted mithral full plate, as a Fighter (etc.) - see how that goes!

 

[El Mahdi]

If your open to optional/variant rules, you can always try the Defense_Bonus optional rules from the D20 SRD. This option was originally from the D&D Unearthed Arcana* book. There are many other optional mechanics like this under the Variant Rules section of the D20_SRD.

*Unearthed Arcana was an "official" WotC D&D book with optional rules for the game, such as the above Defense Progression, Facing Rules, Armor as Damage Reduction, and many more.

 

[PolterGhost]

HP do though.
Not to say it's a bad idea, mind you. It's one of the many changes I made, fwiw.

Oh? How so?

If your open to optional/variant rules, you can always try the Defense_Bonus optional rules from the D20 SRD. This option was originally from the D&D Unearthed Arcana* book. There are many other optional mechanics like this under the Variant Rules section of the D20_SRD.

*Unearthed Arcana was an "official" WotC D&D book with optional rules for the game, such as the above Defense Progression, Facing Rules, Armor as Damage Reduction, and many more.

That...doesn't really change much aside from arcane casters getting a better AC and Fighters not having to use their money to buy any armor at 1st level.

A lot of the UA stuff seems to be like that, in which it looks useful but otherwise only helps in less cases than you can count on one hand.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

The reason is because of iterative attacks. At higher levels, AC likely won't protect you from the first attack, it's there to stop the ones that follow it. If AC raised with level as well, you'd break the core combat assumptions of the game.

AC not auto increasing is also what allows feats like Power Attack and Expertise to become viable. And while a high AC at level 20 may not do squat to stop an enemy's first attack, it could definitely make a difference if he say...Power Attacks for a sizable amount.

 

[Empirate]

It's a known fact that attack bonuses rise with levels more quickly than AC. You can optimize your character to have a high AC, so he's difficult to hit even at mid to high levels - but it comes at a much higher cost than optimizing to, say, do enough damage to one-shot many monsters. It's just one of the facets of D&D 3.X.

Nevertheless, investing in keeping your AC up to par is not bad in and of itself. Like others stated, defending from a Hill Giant's first attack at level 7 is hard to do, with his +16 attack bonus.
His second attack only has a +11, though, so an AC of say, 23 (Dex 12, +1 Full Plate, Amulet of Natural Armor +1, and a Protection from Evil spell for good measure), will protect you with a better than even chance. The Giant will see you're well protected and likely not Power Attack like crazy.
If you simply skipped the armor, however, you'd be an easy target even for the second attack with your AC 14, and you'd be facing a high Power Attack to smack you around a bit.

Likewise, many fights include lots of mooks who're not really a threat individually, but act as meatshields for some big bad mofo. If you skimp on your AC, all those mooks will be able to hit you, and suddenly they're a real threat, instead of just being in the way.


That said, in many cases it's better to invest in a high miss chance than in some minor AC boost. A Cloak of Displacement (Minor) costs 24,000 gp and protects you from one in five attacks that would normally hit you. A Ring of Blinking is even better: at 27,000 gp, it protects you from 50% of all incoming attacks, including spells, area effects and stuff like that.

If you're a caster, Mirror Image (and the Greater variant) is the king of melee defense, with Blink, Displacement, Blur, even Entropic Shield providing more options. This kind of miss chance doesn't stack - but in some cases, they're rolled separately (like Mirror Image plus Displacement plus Blink), making you nigh unhittable. And if your AC is at least good enough to not allow auto-hits, you're set.

 

[Spatula]

Is this actually true through people's games?

IME, yes.

What ways are there to circumvent the issue since AC boosting items seem to cost so much?

Invest in concealment/invisibility options (also very expensive, but much more effective than AC boosts).

 

[Axel]

It's also my experience that AC becomes more-or-less worthless as levels increase. I once ran a melee character to level 15 that demonstrated such - he didn't wear armour or use a shield past level 9. His survivability was better than other melee characters because the extra "investment" in offensive power over defensive meant he killed things faster. D&D combat mechanics are mostly about offensive power, not defensive. My character was a barbarian, so the DR effect was in full swing (I called it the accumulation of scars on his body).

This is only half the story though. After running that character, I would like to share my experience of situations where I wished I had armour.

- Stuck in a Wall of Thorns.
- Being critical-hit for over 100 points (DR 3/- didn't help much there). Fortification on my armour would've helped enormously.
- Getting hit 3 times/round from each direct opponent. My armoured colleagues were typically only getting hit 1 or 2 times/round.
- Flat footed by a single mega-monster that could over-ride my Improved Uncanny Dodge.
- Fighting a swarm of mooks with bows that couldn't hit the wizard, but could hit me.

In summary, at high levels damage resistance and miss chance is much more useful than plain old AC.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Miss chance is better, sure. But AC still is useful at later levels. My last two mid level characters, reaching levels 10 and 9 before the campaigns ended, both had very good ACs and both were frequently missed by enemies because of it.

In response to the above poster:

Critical hit: Unless the guy rolled well both times, a good AC might have prevented the confirmation roll.
Getting hit multiple times: Yes, this is exactly why AC is worthwhile.
Flatfooted: Actually, the "rogue 4 levels higher" line is ONLY to negate Imp. Uncanny Dodge's flanking protection. Uncanny Dodge's flatfooted protection cann't be overcome, and ninja can't sudden strike on a flank, so I think your DM flubbed things to your detriment there, actually.
Mooks: Did you DR make their bow damage fairly negligible, at least?

You were playing a Barb, a class not known for great defenses (other than sheer toughness) to begin with, and then played it up further by neglecting your AC for offense. I don't think that really proves the uselessness of AC at all.

 

[PolterGhost]

It's funny how when I take a look at pre-3e how huge of a boon an AC of 0 seems to be. I wonder what design decisions made running around sword-and-board with field plate less amazing?