Backgrounds: Use 'Em or Lose 'Em?

[The Crimson Binome]

Every character has a background, which informs what they know and how they act. This comes up frequently in every session.

The Backgrounds in the book are all one-dimensional, and they are overly rigid in suggesting each character have exactly one Ideal and one Flaw. Trying to play such a character would be restrictive. The game plays better when you ignore these labels, and just let players define their backgrounds in whatever way makes sense to them (and take the appropriate proficiencies).

 

[S'mon]

To me what you describe in your folk hero experience is just a case of GM and player not being on some page - not working together.

We were on the same page of "there's no there there" - that it was written as background not narrative & so wasn't relevant in play. Unlike Thule Heroic Narratives or 4e Paragon Paths & Epic Destinies, which are all written as journeys not starting points and so do feature in play at least a little.

None of the latter three are written so tightly as to constrain play. I can see the issue you suggest re Thule Narratives coming in at 1st level and maybe player changes their mind. I would allow a Narrative to be swapped out; eg IMC Finnris of the Narthan Highlanders is a Tribal Outlaw, but he may be going more over to Katagian Pit Fighter in play.

 

[5ekyu]

We were on the same page of "there's no there there" - that it was written as background not narrative & so wasn't relevant in play. Unlike Thule Heroic Narratives or 4e Paragon Paths & Epic Destinies, which are all written as journeys not starting points and so do feature in play at least a little.

None of the latter three are written so tightly as to constrain play. I can see the issue you suggest re Thule Narratives coming in at 1st level and maybe player changes their mind. I would allow a Narrative to be swapped out; eg IMC Finnris of the Narthan Highlanders is a Tribal Outlaw, but he may be going more over to Katagian Pit Fighter in play.

"We were on the same page of "there's no there there" - that it was written as background not narrative & so wasn't relevant in play."

Huh?

So both you and the GM agreed your folk hero background in that campaign would stay background and not carry over into play? If that wasnt what you wanted, why go that route? If that was what you wanted, then all good.

The fact that backgrounds dont limit their future effects in play to a few pre-set impacts chosen before the play begins in no way means they wont be relevant in play or that there is " no [narrative] there there" going forward.

You do recognize that a folk hero background **can** in 5e have a lot of impact, have a lot if narrative snd be very relevant in play if the player and gm are looking for that, right?

If so, why pre-decide to deny yourself that if that's not satisfying going forward? Does "having there there" or being relevant in play require plusses or pre-fab lists?

 

[Leatherhead]

Backgrounds as a whole are incredibly useful. The Ideals/Bonds/Flaws subsystem not so much.
Here is a thought: If playing out your Ideals/Bonds/Flaws was listed as awarding Inspiration, (like the Virtue and Vice system from WoD) both systems would probably see more play.

 

[Li Shenron]

In our current family games we don't use them during play, they are just a label on the character sheet. Our PCs started at 1st-level as pregenerated characters, and I included the background proficiencies and features into the character sheets, but didn't define the traits/ideals/flaws/bonds. The idea was to let the players define them graduallly, as eventually something would emerge from their roleplaying (rather than the other way around i.e. define them first and base roleplay on them), but we're still busy with dungeon adventures and their roleplaying hasn't developed much yet.

In general, I think backgrounds are a GREAT addition to D&D however, in many ways... they allow a more free selection of skills, they help create more varied characters, they can cover for missing skills in the party, they give you an extra layer of characterization of who you are outside adventures, they provide excellent roleplaying suggestions. Kind of a win-win-win-win-win situation

 

[S'mon]

You do recognize that a folk hero background **can** in 5e have a lot of impact, have a lot if narrative snd be very relevant in play if the player and gm are looking for that, right?

I don't find that any of the PHB Backgrounds as written provide any dramatic impetus - not a criticism of that one in particular. I think it's an issue with how they're expressed, not the general concept. If there was going to be any narrative weight/dramatic impetus, it would all have to come from me & the GM, and probably require negotiation/discussion.

Example: compared to eg the PHB 'Noble' Background, the Thule 'Atlantean Noble' Heroic Narrative gives me a bunch of kickers right off. Two players took this Narrative. One player (fighter) took the Exiled Noble suggestion, which means he's in opposition to the ruling conservative faction of Katagia - he could have been a radical Atlantean-supremacist or a New Katagian liberal; he took the latter option. So now he has a bunch of likely allies and enemies, and a clear outline of how his narrative may progress. The other player (wizard) took the Quodethi Noble suggestion, so as a member of House Vorzin she's intimately involved in city politics - we settled on her being a daughter of High Diadem Liana, the high priestess of Azura - and she has powerful enemies in the rival Houses Maersk & Sedarnel.

For this to be done in the PHB it would require tying the Backgrounds in specifically to the FR I
think, they would be more stuff like "Harper Agent" "Zhentarim Spy" or "Servant of the Emerald Enclave", ie the FR Factions. As written I find they are so generic they don't have any energy in themselves.

 

[S'mon]

If so, why pre-decide to deny yourself that if that's not satisfying going forward? Does "having there there" or being relevant in play require plusses or pre-fab lists?

The Backgrounds of course have a bunch of lists - lists of what [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] calls 'colour' - but not lists of stuff that's actually going to add drama to the game. No list of three-four evil tyrants to overthrow in the Folk Hero narrative, for instance.

 

[Older Beholder]

As a player I tend to lean on the background over the first 3-4 levels. As that's who the character was before they started adventuring. From that point there's enough experiences from playing the character to inform who they are, also they've grown into their sub-class.

The last campaign I started I suggested everyone pick entertainer as a background so that there was a basic narrative of why they were together. No one had a problem with it, and the first adventure was set around them entering a 'battle of the bards' type song contest.

 

[5ekyu]

I don't find that any of the PHB Backgrounds as written provide any dramatic impetus - not a criticism of that one in particular. I think it's an issue with how they're expressed, not the general concept. If there was going to be any narrative weight/dramatic impetus, it would all have to come from me & the GM, and probably require negotiation/discussion.

Example: compared to eg the PHB 'Noble' Background, the Thule 'Atlantean Noble' Heroic Narrative gives me a bunch of kickers right off. Two players took this Narrative. One player (fighter) took the Exiled Noble suggestion, which means he's in opposition to the ruling conservative faction of Katagia - he could have been a radical Atlantean-supremacist or a New Katagian liberal; he took the latter option. So now he has a bunch of likely allies and enemies, and a clear outline of how his narrative may progress. The other player (wizard) took the Quodethi Noble suggestion, so as a member of House Vorzin she's intimately involved in city politics - we settled on her being a daughter of High Diadem Liana, the high priestess of Azura - and she has powerful enemies in the rival Houses Maersk & Sedarnel.

For this to be done in the PHB it would require tying the Backgrounds in specifically to the FR I
think, they would be more stuff like "Harper Agent" "Zhentarim Spy" or "Servant of the Emerald Enclave", ie the FR Factions. As written I find they are so generic they don't have any energy in themselves.

This gets directly to what i was pointing out - for any given campaign - how the backgrounds manifest is totally dependent on the GM, the player and the setting. Why would a basic PHB intended for a variety of settings and a system where homebrew settings are very strongly represented in play have any serious amount of space devoted to chaining a core character feature to only one of them?

My game isn't set in Thule or in FR so that would be wasted space.

Instead, for my campaign, its up to me and the player to determine together how much we want that going forward - mostly in play - with me giving them options and them choosing which if any to take up.

Your complaint seems to be boiling down to the PHB did not tie itself to a single setting in its core mechanics unlike Thule which is a specific setting.

I would suggest that that is not the role of a core system book, but of a setting book, but even then, there are many more options a player and Gm can imagine.

BTW back in 3.5 a woman who joined our game role-playing her first game on her 60th birthday chose exiled noble and wanting to retake throne as her character "background" aka "concept" and it focused a lot of the campaign play - without any Thule-based rules list to choose from.

 

[S'mon]

This gets directly to what i was pointing out - for any given campaign - how the backgrounds manifest is totally dependent on the GM, the player and the setting. Why would a basic PHB intended for a variety of settings and a system where homebrew settings are very strongly represented in play have any serious amount of space devoted to chaining a core character feature to only one of them?

My game isn't set in Thule or in FR so that would be wasted space.

IMO the whole thing is wasted space, or at least could be reduced to a one line title + skill & equipment package. Backgrounds intended to be more than that ought to be campaign specific. As featured in the PHB they are a waste of space for me; they are generic waffle and don't give me anything useful.