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Balancing Power Attack
- Thread starter Quartz
- Start date
Victim
First Post
eamon said:
Because Animated Shields allow for TWF or THF styles to gain the defensive benefits of sword and board style. No comparably inexpensive effect provides the sword and board fighter with the offensive ability of the other styles. Especially since any benefit to shield use could also be applied to a character using an animated shield.
My group always thought power attack was just too powerful, particularly because it didnt have limits like the other BaB altering feats.
so we agreed to get rid of the animated shield, stupid spell anyway, it would be like fighting with a hyper 7 year old running around your feet (though it worked ok for MCP in Tron).
we also draged it back in line by giveing it a -5 limit and creating the improved power attack feat.
Its still to good, AC is never going to be as useful as extra damage, but as only 1/4 to 2/5ths of the party are likely to even take it, it dosnt show so much.
so we agreed to get rid of the animated shield, stupid spell anyway, it would be like fighting with a hyper 7 year old running around your feet (though it worked ok for MCP in Tron).
we also draged it back in line by giveing it a -5 limit and creating the improved power attack feat.
Its still to good, AC is never going to be as useful as extra damage, but as only 1/4 to 2/5ths of the party are likely to even take it, it dosnt show so much.
eamon
Explorer
I beg to differ about the utility of AC however. I understand that TWF is strictly weaker than power-attacking with a two-handed weapon, but AC remains absolutely crucial; each point makes a large difference in the amount of damage you take. Maybe at really high levels an AC increase is less relevant, but actually I don't believe it. I would never ban animated shields, because they harm players who are mostly behind the power curve anyway - fighter types. Beyond that, an animated shield is not the only means of getting shield bonuses - a bucker with improved buckler defense works just as well, and there are rings of shield too.
In any case, all that this means is that a two handed wielder will do more damage than a S+B, and have 2 AC less. I don't see the problem in that. Yes, a S+B-er is less powerful, but it's also even less feat dependant. And at low levels, there just isn't a problem at all - there's no way an animated shield is worth it until at least mid-levels (say 10-11). Power attack is not too powerful compared to cleric's, druids, wizards or sorcerers. It's a powerful alternative at high levels, and perhaps the 2 to 1 scaling is too good, but that's about all.
So if you want to fix PA, then simply make the scaling 1 to 1, but leave the AC's as is. Removing something like animated shields nerf's TWF as well, a style which is sub-par already. Sure, Sword+Board is less attractive, but it's also the easiest to master (as in, at low levels the most attractive).
In any case, all that this means is that a two handed wielder will do more damage than a S+B, and have 2 AC less. I don't see the problem in that. Yes, a S+B-er is less powerful, but it's also even less feat dependant. And at low levels, there just isn't a problem at all - there's no way an animated shield is worth it until at least mid-levels (say 10-11). Power attack is not too powerful compared to cleric's, druids, wizards or sorcerers. It's a powerful alternative at high levels, and perhaps the 2 to 1 scaling is too good, but that's about all.
So if you want to fix PA, then simply make the scaling 1 to 1, but leave the AC's as is. Removing something like animated shields nerf's TWF as well, a style which is sub-par already. Sure, Sword+Board is less attractive, but it's also the easiest to master (as in, at low levels the most attractive).
Kmart Kommando
First Post
Iron Heroes has attack challenges, some of which are pretty much just 1 for 1 Power Attack that anyone can use with any weapon. Plus it has Power Attack feat mastery that scales up better than D&D's Power Attack, and it still balances fine.
Power Attack isn't a problem, Power Attack cheese add ons are the problem.
Although, shields are much better in IH.
For any of the fighting styles, add enough cheese and any can be overpowered.
I had a swordsage in an AoW campaign that used a 2handed weapon, and my AC sucked, I always got hit, but so did the heavily armored TWF shield bashing fighter type, and the TWF Monk/Ranger.
Only ones that didn't get hit consistently were the shapechanging superior invisible sorcerer, and the melee shapechanging dwarf wizard.
Power Attack isn't a problem, Power Attack cheese add ons are the problem.
Although, shields are much better in IH.
For any of the fighting styles, add enough cheese and any can be overpowered.
I had a swordsage in an AoW campaign that used a 2handed weapon, and my AC sucked, I always got hit, but so did the heavily armored TWF shield bashing fighter type, and the TWF Monk/Ranger.
Only ones that didn't get hit consistently were the shapechanging superior invisible sorcerer, and the melee shapechanging dwarf wizard.
robberbaron
First Post
We've never used 2x power attack damage for 2-handers. In fact, until we had a couple of teenagers join our group, I didn't realise this rule existed. Just unobservant, I guess.
