'Balancing' rolled characters

[Bauglir]

Balance is my new favorite word to hate in relation to RPG's. RPG's have existed for over 30 years in their current form without balance.

Original D&D, 1st edition, 2nd edition...etc...none of these had balance.

Do you think the Fellowship of the Ring was balanced? Two immortals, a stout Dwarf, the future king of an elite group of men who shares the blood of the heroes of old, a noble warrior, renowned for his prowess...and 4 hobbits that had never seen a weapon.

Balance is not the key to having fun in an RPG. Balance is not the point of the rules.

The point of the rules is to provide a bit of structure for the game. The point of the game is to exercise your imagination, have fun and create a new world a few hours at a time.

/rant off

On topic? I'll stick with good old dice rolling, thanks. I like the chance and the wonder of what might be created by the next few tosses of the dice...rather than trying to calculate what cookie-cutter character I might stamp out next.

Cedric

And do you think the fellowship would make a good party for a fun game of D&D? I mean the party consisted of 4 high level fighting types, 4 ultra-low-level commoners, and a minor god..

DM: (Rolls dice) Aragorn - you hear a rustling in the trees. Your keen ranger senses warn you that a party of orcs is approaching fast. Legolas you notice this too.
Legolas: I get out my bow and get ready to nail some orcs to trees. I also tell the others what's happening..
Aragorn, Boromir, Gimli: We draw weapons and stand back to back
Gandalf: I draw my sword for some reason (even though I could easily wipe these orcs out with a thought using my godly powers)
Hobbits: We cower behind a rock. Again..

Unless of course you're really into the rock cowering scene I can't see this being much fun for the players stuck playing the hobbits..

 

[Reprisal]

I'm likin' this Stat Matrix!

The stat matrix sounds quite interesting, if my group ever plays D&D again, I'll make sure that I mention it!

After reading the thread, I have to ask: Has anyone ever had a good experience when the DM just let the players choose their statistics?

Would there be good way of doing this?

• Everyone creating characters at the same time.
• Players are informed as to a set of expectations... (Don't be good at everything, every character has strengths and weaknesses... etc.)
• Everything is done in the open, no hiding character sheets from other players...

It sounds like it might work in the right group, but I'm not certain that there are many of those floating around...

What say you?

- Rep.

 

[HomerJS]

for some peopel its just not fun to play DnD with craptastic stats. Usually the low roll guy is just along for the ride.

 

[National Acrobat]

While it is true that it isn't fun for some people to play characters with crappy stats, it can also be said that some people hate when events come down to a dice roll, pass or fail, but that's the way the game is and has always been. Point buy wasn't even in our vocabulary until 3E but it never really bothered us before. Bad characters aside, a lot of the game is randomness and I'm not always comfortable "balancing" encounters, because I do agree that in RL people are not always equal, and in gaming they shouldn't be either.

 

[Brekke]

We mainly roll 4D6 drop the lowest seven times dropping the lowest set. On the whole it has worked out. But I have seen where it can be annoying for the players who did not roll as good as some of the others. Sometimes it is the little things like when the wizard has less ranks in religion then the cleric but the ability modifier gives him a higher roll modifier or when the wizard has a higher con than any of the fighters.

In my last two games that I played in where we rolled I had the lowest overall stats of any of the others. My one PC died and at first the DM was not going to allow raise dead the new PC I rolled was fantastic the highest I ever rolled 2 18 1 17 the lowest was 11. In the end I choose to keep my other PC when the DM had a change of heart.

Any character with decent stats can be viable and fun to play. Point buy is not as much fun and on the whole you will never get as high a stat character as might get with good rolls unless the DM gives you a lot of points to work with. I also think characters like monks and paladins are harder to create using point buy.

Some of making it fun comes down to player choices if you rolled low and another rolled high it could be a mistake to play the same class.

If the player is very unhappy with his rolls then you can do waht the dM did in our current game he added up the points on the highest rolled modified it a little and allowed the players who wanted to to use the point buy.

 

[Will]

I didn't mind it when I was younger, but now... rolling random stats seems tantamount to rolling a d20 and using that to determine what level you are. (Ok, exaggerating a bit.

'Ok, Doug, you're 4th level, Dan, you're 5th, Francine is 15th, and Joe is 11th. What? Well, people have different life experiences... That's just how the dice came up.'

The other way I put this is 'yes, it might be fun to play a schlub... but I'd like that to be what I choose to do, not some 'exciting opportunity' that's been foisted on me.'

Personally, if you're going to bother to have ECL for drow and other 'special' races, starting with a modifier of 4+ over the rest of the party is worth an ECL +1 or more.

If you feel comfortable with that disparity, I hope you don't bother to account for ECL for drow and half-celestials.

After all, who cares to get that mucky about balance?

 

[diaglo]

Unless of course you're really into the rock cowering scene I can't see this being much fun for the players stuck playing the hobbits..

then you aren't playing your hobbits to their full potential.

when did pippin or merry cower when in the elven city? they butted in on a secret meeting and even invited themselves on the quest.

or when meeting other godlike beings like the ents or kings or etc...

 

[Bauglir]

The moment there was any actual action the hobbits fairly rapidly became dead weight, they were so outshadowed by the others.

DM: (pitches an encounter designed to challenge the 4 fighter types)

The hobbits try to struggle but they have no real chance vs these opponents

DM: Merry, Pippin you have been captured by orcs. Now sit quietly while the rest of the party adventures to rescue you

 

[diaglo]

DM: Merry, Pippin you have been captured by orcs. Now sit quietly while the rest of the party adventures to rescue you

but did they sit quietly?

i seem to recall them trying to escape and then succeeding. one of those mano y mano things with the DM away from the other players.

edit: definitely skill based characters.

 

[Bauglir]

For a long time they did, until the opportunity to escape presented itself. Even then the only option available to them was to run off until the next plot device presented itself (treebeard). Meanwhile the stronger party members were able to take affirmitive action and pursue the orcs..

I'd agree that the hobbits display significant amounts of skill (or perhaps just luck?), while displaying no combat ability whatsoever, which breaks the D&D mold somewhat. (Highly skilled = high level = higher BAB)