Barbarian is up!!!

[Kirnon_Bhale]

[I too am in the worried about going Nova through Rage Striking but at the same time I like the way Dailies mimic Raging for a Barbarian. This is my off the cuff solution that I would love people to dissect.

Rage Strike – Turn it into the opposite of the clerics healing word. Minor action use a surge deal damage equal to surge +2d6. (Increase to 3d6 and 5d6 as per Rogue) Only usable when in a rage useable twice an encounter. Only useable once per round. Not usable same turn as Daily??? (unsure)

This would mean that the Barbarian can’t do bonus damage as often makes him think twice about doing due to his loss of surges – also doesn’t encourage Rage Nova’s. He will do less bonus damage round by round but when he does do it, it will be impressive. The median damage of the surge is pretty much on a par with a d12 weapon barbarian – minus the striker bonus damage.

This I think would solve the multiclass problem – although I was thinking that it might be useful to restrict barbarian powers to two handed attacks only. This would help prevent AC busting Barbarians by restricting shields a little.

My third thought was regarding Dailies. Why don’t the effects stack and would it be completely unbalancing if they did? This frees the Barbarian from only optimally being able to use one Rage per encounter but isn’t a no brainer thus as with all classes He can go Nova or not – and would be a nice way of showing him getting even more enraged if he does happen to use a couple in a single combat. If the effects would require a slight nerf because of this then surely while it is being worked on it could.

While I am sure that there are a number of holes in my idea – On the surface it would look to have some merit. Less often with the extra damage but it’ll hurt when it is used and at a cost.

 

[Leatherhead]

I am not too keen on the way the class is set up. The Barbarian is a striker, but the extra striker damage is more incorporated into their evocations instead of their extra damage class feature (rampage). Mostly because rampage only happens once in twenty rolls or so, instead of nearly every round like the other striker features. This would be fine but quirky if they existed in a vacuum, but think of the multi-classing problems it can cause when a ranger (or even perhaps another future melee striker that uses two handed weapons) gets their hands on some barbarian evocations.

Oh yeah, for the quick fix:
Evocations do less damage, Rampage triggers nearly once a round. Off the top of my head I would say it could even work as an extra melee basic attack per round when you manage to hit an enemy, but maybe just an extra attack that deals 1[W] damage(2[W] at level 21+) without any stat bonuses would keep them "in line but different."

 

[Saben]

The reason I'm not comfortable with Barb where it is right now, is because of how off and on it seems compared to other classes. When you rage, you are uber for the entire encounter, even your at-wills become uber and if you choose you can even UBER BURST with Rage Strike.

The rest of the time... well, even your at-wills are worse. This means the class leans towards being able to nova 3 times per day and being sub-par the rest of the time. I could be wrong, but I just get the feeling that the class is the worst offender in that regard... I mean, a Wizard's at-wills aren't as good as a Ranger's, but he has better Dailies to make up for it. But I think the Barbarian takes this too much to the extreme.

 

[Ulrik]

[I too am in the worried about going Nova through Rage Striking but at the same time I like the way Dailies mimic Raging for a Barbarian. This is my off the cuff solution that I would love people to dissect.

I think it's best to just regard Rage Strike as a patch to make up for the fact that rages don't stack. So it should really just be ignored, until you feel like you really should use another daily in this combat. It doesn't look like a core feature. Removing it would, in the vast majority of cases, not make the barbarian sub-par.

I think the problem is presentation, it's presented as a class feature which looks pretty prominent, when it's more on the level of Wizard cantrips. The class is designed to function just fine without it in something like 80% or 90% of all adventuring days, so attempting to "fix" it by making it do something else is pretty pointless. If it's really that much of a distraction it should rather be removed.

The issue of multclassing is more worrying, but isn't mc'ing one of the areas lacking in playtest? I also heard it mentioned here on these boards that it was implemented through feats partially so it could easily be replaced. Perhaps PHBII introduces a new system for multiclassing. Which would be welcome if the current system places so severe restrictions on class design that all strikers *have to* have bonus damage, which is what is being argued here.

 

[Ulrik]

The reason I'm not comfortable with Barb where it is right now, is because of how off and on it seems compared to other classes. When you rage, you are uber for the entire encounter, even your at-wills become uber and if you choose you can even UBER BURST with Rage Strike.

Lots of dailies affect the entire encounter. Just by looking at the cleric, you have Beacon of Hope and Spiritual Weapon at lvl 1 and 5 respectively. +5 healing for all your powers? Makes the cleric much better at his job, for that encounter, once per day. Same with spiritual weapon, extra damage and reducing AC *on all attacks* for that encounter.

It's the intent of all dailies to affect the entire encounter, either through a persistent effect or huge burst damage. Barbarians are just more obvious about it with the rage effect and burst from Rage Strike.

(Of course, it may be that it's too much effect from a daily compared to other classes, it's a playtest after all I just think the basic idea is not necessarily bad.)

 

[Kirnon_Bhale]

The problem is that Rage strike does feel like a patch rather then a core feature of the barbarian. Hence my thoughts on the matter. I have been going through the rages and I can't see a problem with treating the rage differently to a stance and allowing the effects to stack, if you look at it from all sorts of angles Rage strike just seems off. It feels like it needs a change.

 

[JVisgaitis]

I don't consider an ability that I get at a level that I can't use to be beautiful or elegant.

I don't find it elegant either. Clever maybe, but not elegant. I'd rather see the ongoing affect of the existing rage spent as opposed to another daily power. You can ever power down rage strike a bit. That way its usable at first level and you don't have to go all in with dailies to use your abilities.

 

[Wonka]

I understand that this is "like" getting another feature at 5th level, but that's part of what I see as sloppy, because it's "like" getting another feature at 5th level, but it's not getting another feature at 5th level. It's getting a useless feature at 1st level.

If you cant use it until level 5, dont give it out until level 5. Problem solved, and the mechanic (which I happen to like) still works.

 

[Wormwood]

I'll be playtesting this soon, but my initial reaction toward rage strike is fairly negative. The implementation seems klunky, inelegant, and unnecessary.

There's already plenty of existing design space for 'does extra damage while raging'---I don't enjoy seeing new subsystems introduced unless they are smooth and simple.

We'll see how it works in play, of course.

 

[Tikigod]

To the half - orc guessers out there:

They will have +2 Str +2 Dex