Barbarian is up!!!

[Larrin]

Um, same thing. If they can't use Rage Strike until 5th Level, they would be minus 1 at will power until 5th Level. So technically, they'd have only 1.

Rage strike is a class feature, NOT an at will attack. You get your two at wills AND you get rage strike, just the same as how a wizard gets two at wills AND 4 cantrips. Rage strike is a barbarian cantrip (.....well not really, but its the same idea)

consdier the suggested build.

Suggested Feat: Weapon Focus
Suggested Skills: Athletics, Endurance, Perception
Suggested At-Will Powers: howling strike,
recuperating strike
Suggested Encounter Power: avalanche strike
Suggested Daily Power: bloodhunt rage

NOTE: he has two at wills, neither of which is rage strike. (compare to warlock build advice, its "chosen for you" at wills are listed)

Rage strike isn't nearly as klunky or blatantly unfair as people seem to be saying, IMO. Its a simple idea. You are in rage. Burn a different rage to do this attack. This is so you can do big attacks, while keeping the rage you have. If you don't like it, don't use it, and you will never suffer, but if it wasn't there, it would be annoying that you couldn't use another daily level damage without leaving the rage you want to stay in.

As for not using it until level 5: THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM. Seriously. You can't use it before level 5, BUT you don't need it before level 5, you won't even want to use it before level 5, and its not such a big deal that you will in ANY CONCEIVABLE WAY be inconvenienced not being able to use it before level 5. However, what if, say, half-orcs can rage as a racial ability. Well then orcs can use it at level 1. What if there are magical items that let you rage, well then you can use this ability before level 5. Anything is possible, so the fact you get Rage strike from level 1 means that if you somehow enter a rage via non-class methods, you can still use it. I seriously can not see anyway in which this is, or could be, a problem.

 

[Obryn]

I guess I'm not seeing a problem with Rage Strike. To me, it's just a shorthand.

The designers could have instead put a Special line into all Rages. Something like...

Special: If you are already in a Rage, you can expend this Daily power in a single attack, doing X[W] damage. You gain no other benefits from this use of the Rage, and you stay in your current Rage uninterrupted.

Rather than throw that into each and every power, they made it a class feature. There's no mechanical difference between the two approaches; just arguments about 'elegance' that could be made on both sides of the equation.

-O

 

[deleteme123456]

So, fun things ... a Minotaur Barb with an oversized Executioner's Axe gets a 2d6 Brutal 2 High Crit weapon. Sounds like a great choice for a barb.
I build this as
18/18/14/8/10/13 [you may switch the int and wis if you like]
Heroic feats:
Level 1: Chain mail prof
Level 2: W Prof E Axe (optionally switch w/1)
Level 4: W Focus Axes
Level 6: ??? barb-only feat? Something with +attack while raging maybe? I could hope. Toughness is good too.
Level 8: Scale prof
Level 10: See level 6.
Paragon:
Level 11: Scale spec. Optionally retrain level 6 or 10 feat for Back to the Wall or Blood Thirst.
Rest of paragon: pick up Lightning reflexes and iron will, there's a few other choices like danger sense, but not a whole lot I'm dying to get.
Epic:
Axe mastery
Triumphant Attack
...

All I know is that 9[W] on a 2d6 brutal 2 is 81 damage on average. While that isn't something you can do all the time, it has some attraction.

 

[IncompleteUserNa]

I guess I'm not seeing a problem with Rage Strike. To me, it's just a shorthand.

The designers could have instead put a Special line into all Rages. Something like...

Special: If you are already in a Rage, you can expend this Daily power in a single attack, doing X[W] damage. You gain no other benefits from this use of the Rage, and you stay in your current Rage uninterrupted.

Rather than throw that into each and every power, they made it a class feature. There's no mechanical difference between the two approaches; just arguments about 'elegance' that could be made on both sides of the equation.

-O

The number of people confused and upset about rage strike suggests that there is a key distinction. The first time you read the rage strike statblock, it isn't clear what it does, when it does what it does, or why you would need it to do what it does. Once you grind on it for a while you have a Eureka moment, which is kind of fun, but making it clearer is worth inflating the wordcount slightly.

 

[TerraDave]

Just cause Conan has a low Int, doesnt mean the controlling player does

Looking at it again, maybe not that bad afterall...

but ragestrike just seems uneeded. I could see it if rages were encounter powers (though it would have to be toned down). But one goal of 4E was to give charecters more durability. Having a charecter that burns through all its dailies like that, and can only do its "main thing" once a day, would seem to go against that goal.

 

[Larrin]

Having a charecter that burns through all its dailies like that, and can only do its "main thing" once a day, would seem to go against that goal.

Rage is not the barbarians 'main thing'. Charging and hacking is its 'main thing' and it gets to do that all day long. Raging is a significant boost to the charging and hacking, and is therefore limited. The barbarian has no more incentive to burn through his dailies than a fighter or rogue. Less even, since in order to burn through them he must forgo something nifty in the future. If anything Barbarians are the least motivated to 'go nova', and without rage strike, they'd be super un-motivated, which is not at all barbarian-like. This way the at least have a choice, pure damage now or useful rage later. Its a line that the barbarian must walk, and one that players will learn to use to their benefit.

 

[Starbuck_II]

4) Striker with defender hitpoints. I absolutely applaud this. I do NOT want the classes to become so straightjacketed by rules that we sacrifice good class design for conformity. This was the problem with monsters in 3e, writers found it hard to make good monsters that had to conform to the formula.

What are you say exactly?
That because 3rd edition did'nt follow the creation rules monsters turned out unbalanced (That Damn Crab for instance)
Are are you saying ther ooposite? But then I say That Damn Crab.

Writers made broken monsters that didn't conform to formula too much.

I will agree that Barb is awesome as a hybrid Class: Striker with a dash of defender (opposite what the Fighter is basically; a Defender with Striker tendencies).

 

[Skyscraper]

Raging Strike is not an appealing power to me. You need to burn you cool, strongest powers (dailies) each time you use it. It's like a heartbreak each time you use that power.

Plus, all other classes get their class-defining abilities at level 1. Not the Barb, he gets it at level 5. 5 levels can be a long wait depending on how often you play and how fast you level.

Trading a level 1 rage power for Raging Strike is doubly frustrating, since you get more out of your level 1 rage power than from Raging Strike, except if you want to keep you first rage power benefits going.

This is really a bad mechanic overall IMO, and this is the first class in any D&D edition that i read and say to myself: i would never pick this class for my PC.

Sky

 

[MrMyth]

It's not broken because for the barb to do 6W+6, he's got to hit with all 6.

Well, here's the numbers I'm looking at, and the reason that power seems absurd.

Let's assume we're level 30 characters fighting someone with AC 45. I am, admittedly, not bothering accounting for critical hits in my numbers - but given that crits will generally be pretty darn good for the barbarian, with his free attack and the fact that taking 6 attacks makes the odds of a crit rather high, I think they'll tend to work in his favor anyway.

Level 29 Rogue Daily: Assassin's Point
Assumptions: Iron Armbands of Power +6, Weapon Focus, +6 Radiant Rapier, Backstabber, Dex 30, Str 24, Brutal Rogue, Kensai, Combat Advantage.
Attack: +37 vs AC
Damage: 17d8+49; Miss: Half Damage.
Average Damage: 104

Level 29 Ranger Daily: Three-in-One Shot
Assumptions: Bracers of Archery +6, Weapon Focus, +6 Radiant Greatbow, Lethal Hunter, Dex 30, Wis 24, Pit Fighter, Combat Advantage.
Attack: +35 vs AC, +35/40 vs AC, +35/40 vs AC
Damage: 2d12+38 per attack, +3d8; Miss: Half Damage.
Average Damage: 133

Level 27 Hurricane of Blades
Assumptions: Iron Armbands of Power +6, Weapon Focus, +6 Radiant Mordenkrad, Str 30, Con 24, Hammer Rhythm, Kensai, Combat Advantage, Power Attack.
Attack: +34 vs AC: 2d6+44 (Brutal 1); Miss: 7 Damage.
Average Damage: 177

A level 27 Encounter power simply shouldn't outclass Level 29 Dailies. And, yes, this is with stacking lots of damage so each attack hits hard - but that is generally what strikers will be doing. This doesn't even consider plenty of other boosts that a truly optimized character could achieve.

Still, lets see how it looks if we avoid multiclassing and stick to PHB feats and equipment.

Level 29 Rogue Daily: Assassin's Point
Assumptions: Weapon Focus, +6 Rapier, Backstabber, Dex 30, Str 24, Brutal Rogue, Combat Advantage.
Attack: +36 vs AC
Damage: 17d8+33; Miss: Half Damage.
Average Damage: 88

Level 29 Ranger Daily: Three-in-One Shot
Assumptions: Weapon Focus, +6 Longbow, Lethal Hunter, Dex 30, Combat Advantage.
Attack: +35 vs AC, +35/40 vs AC, +35/40 vs AC
Damage: 2d10+19 per attack, +3d8; Miss: Half Damage.
Average Damage: 87

Level 27 Hurricane of Blades
Assumptions: Weapon Focus, +6 Maul, Str 30, Con 24, Hammer Rhythm, Combat Advantage, Power Attack.
Attack: +33 vs AC: 2d6+28; Miss: 7 Damage.
Average Damage: 118

Still in the lead. The daily powers seem to reliably be doing 75% of the damage of this encounter power. Clearly, something is off.

Now, you can trump it with powers that hit multiple targets - area effect powers, Hail of Arrows, etc. But spreading out damage is generally less effective (and you aren't always able to get multiple targets, thus mitigating such powers), which is why the rules seem ok with letting multi-target powers do more overall damage than single-target powers. They just don't do more damage to a single foe.

Similarly, if the barbarian is surrounded by 6 enemies, there are countless lower level 'close burst 1' powers that technically do the same amount of damage. But Hurricane of Blades can be unloaded into a single target, which is simply absurd for damage potential - it would be impressive as a daily power, and is downright insane as an encounter power.

How to fix it? As mentioned above, divvying up that damage among multiple targets is more acceptable. Perhaps give him 6 attacks, but no more than 3 can go at a single target? I suspect something along those lines will work best - or at least provide a start to balancing the power. I like the concept of it, but an encounter power really shouldn't be the highest single-target damage power in the game.

 

[JVisgaitis]

As for not using it until level 5: THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM.

Well, I think it is a problem. It's nothing like any of the other classes have. There are a lot of other ways to do it. Like I said, I think its a cool ability. Its application needs work. The fact that so many people are having issues grasping the concept makes it a problem. I wouldn't hate the class if it stayed this way, but at the very least it needs to be explained better.