Bard Skill Choices

[Rl'Halsinor]

I didn't want to hijack RockLAX's thread so I started my own. My son wants to play a 3.5 Bard. Neither he nor I have played one before and the DM has never had a player roll one up before.

The new campaign we are about to begin will be starting us off at 3rd level. He has 50 Skill Points to distribute. Now one thing he definitely wants to do is to put at least 3 Ranks in Perform.

After that we haven't a clue. So, in your opinion based on experience, what would make good well-rounded Bard PC Skill choices in the early stages of a campaign?

Thanks.

 

[hafrogman]

Well, social skills are a Bards bread and butter. Then there's a few tricks to pick up along the way. 8 skills maxed at third level is 48 skill points. . .

I'd suggest something like . . .

Bluff
Diplomacy
Gather Information
Listen
Perform
Sense Motive
Tumble
Use Magic Device

If he wants to be a more sneaky type bard, you could trade out some of the social skills for hide and move silently.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Max concentration. And get tumble high enough to not need to roll in general when using it (+14 total modifier), after that it doesn't matter as much if you advance it. Perform actually should be maxed in at least one kind of performance, so he gets his bardic music abilities. Use magic device is awesome, but the DCs are tough at lower levels. Sometimes I put only 1 rank in it to use it if I need it, and then later on down the line max it out. Typically around level 8 or so. You want +19 at least eventually, since all wands and staves are DC 20...

The rest is largely up to what he likes. Spellcraft is always handy. Could get stealth and scouting skills, social skills, or something else. He'll have good charisma, so social skills might be the best thing to go for. If you want, look at the skills he's interested in and see if there's synergy bonuses. Diplomacy gets them from 3 skills! -- all on the bard list -- for example. All synergy bonuses come from 5 ranks in the skill, so it's genrally good to plunk down 5 or more in skills that give synergy to something else.

 

[roguerouge]

OT: I recommend giving the player a lore book option. With this house rule, the player still casts the same number of spells per day, but drops the "spells known" class feature in favor of a lore book that works exactly like a wizard's spell book. There are so many spells in the splat books that are flavorful that I'd love to see in play but that I'd never, in a million years take as one of a handful of spells I'll ever know. In my experience, the lore book option ends up promoting flexibility in the long term. /OT

Max out diplomacy, bluff, sense motive, and use magic device.

Do me a favor. Ask your DM point blank if an illusion or a charm will ever defeat a big bad. A lot of DMs who are inexperienced with bards get "frustrated" that the bard allows the PCs to subvert and recruit guards rather than murdering them in cold blood. They think of the use of illusions, enchantments, and diplomacy to deal with encounters nonviolently and creatively as "broken" and "cheating." If your DM says something other than an enthusiastic "Yes, you can defeat big bads with your class skills," then you have a "Bards at the Back of the Bus" DM. In that case, don't challenge him, but don't play a bard. Play a conjurer or a barbarian. That kind of DM will never let your bard shine, and it's deeply unfair to play in a campaign where the evoker's class abilities are always relevant, but yours aren't.

 

[roguerouge]

double post

 

[Suzaku]

Max concentration.

I have to disagree generally I think you should take Melody casting which allows you to substitute concentration checks with perform. In addition you can cast spells, scrolls wands while you're using your bardic music. And since there are instrument that causes songs to reduce in length when you cease in use with the exchange of extra bonus, and with melody casting you don't have to ever stop, not even to cast spells.

And since you're starting at level 3 I recommend Song of Heart which gives +1 to inspire courage along with inspirational boost from Spell Compendium which is a swift action and gives +1 to your inspire courage. Combine it would give a total of +3 to inspire courage, which allows your fighters to power attack for 3 (and if the fighter was using two handed) for a total of +7 damage.

Melody Casting: Feat in Complete Mage
Song of Heart: Feat in Eberon Campaign Setting
Inspirational Boost: Spell in spell compendium

 

[Rl'Halsinor]

roguerouge, yes, this DM allowed, in fact encouraged, the Bard to use diplomacy, etc. He loves when people become creative with their skill sets. He really is a DM that enjoys PCs who Role-Play through the uniqueness of their stats and background story. He likes it when a player will write a background and he always finds a way to weave it in to the overarching plot.

 

[irdeggman]

Max a perform skill (necessary for bard special abilities to have certain "ranks" also can make some money with performances when needed).

At least 5 ranks in bluff due to the synergy bonuses it provides

Synergy: If you have 5 or more ranks in Bluff, you get a +2 bonus on Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Sleight of Hand checks, as well as on Disguise checks made when you know you’re being observed and you try to act in character.

Knowledge skills are also useful, especially to 5 ranks - again the synergy bonus issue. This is a key one since bard and wizard are the only classes where all knowledge skills are class skills.

Most directly useful are:

Knowledge (history) - synergy to bardic knowledge checks

Knowledge (Local) - synergy to gather information checks

Knowledge (nobility and royalty) - bonus to diplomacy checks

Synergy: If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (arcana), you get a +2 bonus on Spellcraft checks.
If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (architecture and engineering), you get a +2 bonus on Search checks made to find secret doors or hidden compartments.
If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (geography), you get a +2 bonus on Survival checks made to keep from getting lost or to avoid natural hazards.
If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (history), you get a +2 bonus on bardic knowledge checks.
If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (local), you get a +2 bonus on Gather Information checks.
If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (nature), you get a +2 bonus on Survival checks made in aboveground natural environments (aquatic, desert, forest, hill, marsh, mountains, or plains).
If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (nobility and royalty), you get a +2 bonus on Diplomacy checks.
If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (religion), you get a +2 bonus on turning checks against undead.
If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (the planes), you get a +2 bonus on Survival checks made while on other planes.
If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (dungeoneering), you get a +2 bonus on Survival checks made while underground.
If you have 5 or more ranks in Survival, you get a +2 bonus on Knowledge (nature) checks.
Untrained: An untrained Knowledge check is simply an Intelligence check. Without actual training, you know only common knowledge (DC 10 or lower).