Bardic Knowledge, when to use it?

[Bront]

I generaly allow it to be used as more of a legends and lore skill. Not one that replaces any particular knowledge skill, but can be used, though poorly, to emulate them.

Generaly, i'm flexable with knowledge skills though, and allow different KN skills to give information on the same topic, though usually within the confines of the skill.

 

[pawned79]

And Drow are not "local notable people"? I would think that at least in Forgotten Realms they would be.

Arravis' opinion is that BK means a notible person. Like Bob the drow. Not just drow. So you could roll to know Bob and all his bad habbits (which I agree with), but you can't roll on drow to know there is a drow named Bob and he has bad habbits.

Troll - no.
Famous Bob the Troll - yes.

So if I know Bob the Troll (maybe), why not be able to roll my check when I meet a Troll?

~ Patrick ~

 

[Arravis]

So if I know Bob the Troll (maybe), why not be able to roll my check when I meet a Troll?

Because Bardic Knowledge doesn't replace Knowledge skills. If you were to meet a random troll, you would make the appropriate Knowledge check to see what you know of trolls. If that troll had a distinguishing mark that somehow related to Bardic Knowledge (ie: local notable people, legendary items, or a noteworthy place), you'll get a roll.

For example, let's say the troll had a red-painted face, you'd roll to know that this troll might have some connection to Greun of the Bloodskulls, Terror of the Eastern Plains who died one hundred years ago in battle to a white dragon.

 

[Three_Haligonians]

I have to agree with Lord Pendragon on this one. There are no "unspecific people". Everyone has a distinct personality, area of speciality, and range of experiences that someone else, concievably, may have heard of. Back to the Drizzt example: if a bard made a successful BK check to know about Drizzt, he would learn (for example) that Drizzt is a drow ranger living on the surface, right? But to understand anything about Drizzt's personality, the bard MUST know something about drow in general, because much of Drizzt's character is defined when contrasted with the rest of his race.

I'm not suggesting that the BK check should reveal everything written in the MM about drow, but if you heard about Drizzt in your travels, then maybe you know that although most drow are evil, Drizzt is good, though most drow live underground, Drizzt lives on the surface. After all, it is the ways in which people differ from normalcy that make them famous.

One last point... if you were the bard in question, listening to tales of Drizzt around the campfire, or whatever, wouldn't you ask what a drow was?

R from Three Haligonians

 

[Arravis]

Yes, most people know what a drow is. What the average person knows is not a Bardic Knowledge check. Knowledge Skill checks reveal details like their SR, powers, and so on. Bardic Knowledge checks do not. Nothing in the rules implies that sort of result.

Commoners and most people know the very basics of the Drow (ie, evil elves that live underground, black skin, etc). A bard has additional knowledge in that he may know of the stories of many specific drow. Someone with the proper Knowledge will know details of their powers and abilities. Knowledge skill checks and Bardic Knowledge, as clearly written in the rules, are different things.

People keep bringing up issues of what a bard would ask around the campfire or hear in songs, etc... Who knows what's asked, it could be debated all day what's mentioned in tales and songs. How specific or vague, how in-character or meta it is. In the end it doesn't matter. This is the rules forum and it deals with the rules as written, nothing more.

 

[Three_Haligonians]

Aha, perhaps that's the difference. See, the way we play, just because you as a player know what a drow is does not mean your character does. Certainly not more uncommon creatures, anyway.

Anyway, I guess I didn't mean that none of the stat block info could be determined from a BK check. Just that the information would be more general, or incomplete. Ie., you might know that vampires don't like light, but you wouldn't know that Sunburst specifically hurts them, and Daylight does not. That kind of thing,

R from Three Haligonians

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Bardic Knowledge check on a Balor:
[bq]"You recall the story of a plane-hopping adventurer that tangled with a Balor, specifically the fight where the adventurer was fooled into the Undead Skarl Kingdom by the Balor's evil plan."[/bq]

Knowledge (the Planes) check on a Balor:
[bq]"Your knowledge of the planes has taught you that Balors come from insert plane where they are at the top of the food chain, acting as leaders of vast demonic armies. Since you rolled a DC 30 on your check, you also know that they are fearsome in combat, employing a great sword and a flaming whip coupled with powerful arcane spells to terrifying effect."[/bq]

Except that any such tale (in the former) would have some information, at least, about the Balors' abilities, or (again at least) that individual Balor's abilities. You'd get the greatsword and flaming whip, certainly, and probably that Balors have spell-like abilities. Probably wouldn't pick up the SR, since that can simply be the result of good saves.

Of course, Knowledge: the Planes can tell you which spell-like abilities, and will probably be more accurate, given that it won't accidentally include any abilities unique to a specific Balor. Knowledge: the Planes would also likely tell you about the SR, the Balor's energy resistances, and any other relevant data, depending on the DC.

 

[Synthetik Fish]

Except that any such tale (in the former) would have some information, at least, about the Balors' abilities, or (again at least) that individual Balor's abilities. You'd get the greatsword and flaming whip, certainly, and probably that Balors have spell-like abilities. Probably wouldn't pick up the SR, since that can simply be the result of good saves.

Of course, Knowledge: the Planes can tell you which spell-like abilities, and will probably be more accurate, given that it won't accidentally include any abilities unique to a specific Balor. Knowledge: the Planes would also likely tell you about the SR, the Balor's energy resistances, and any other relevant data, depending on the DC.

I completely agree. I think this is how the skill was meant ot be used.