basic differences in rules per edition

[ExploderWizard]

Absolutely nonsensical.

If one had never played a game without a draconian hardcore RAW I could certainly see where this opinion would come from. Of course what do I know. A rulebook obviously knows what is best and most fun for any group. Thinking that players might have a better idea about this is sheer folly.

 

[Lanefan]

A rulebook obviously knows what is best and most fun for any group. Thinking that players might have a better idea about this is sheer folly.

That was 1984: the RPG, wasn't it?

Lan-"Big Brother is still watching"-efan

 

[ProfessorCirno]

If one had never played a game without a draconian hardcore RAW I could certainly see where this opinion would come from. Of course what do I know. A rulebook obviously knows what is best and most fun for any group. Thinking that players might have a better idea about this is sheer folly.

What is folly is the idea that changing and/or throwing out most the rules means you're still playing the same game.

The game is the rules. Literally. Monopoly is the game where you move your pieces across the board and buy property and generally try to screw over the other players. L5R4 is the game where you roll d10's and keep a certain number to score over thresholds, and you have stats for ettiquette and combat alike.

And D&D3e is a game where you roll your knowledge skill for knowledge checks, and you roll your diplomacy for diplomacy checks, and you roll your strength for strength checks. If you throw all that out, you are no longer playing the game. You are playing a very heavily houseruled version, certainly, but you can't hold that version up and say "See, this is 3.x."

This is what is meant by "Playing tea party;" when the rules - typically skills - are thrown out and players just freeform everything. Freeform can be a lot of fun, but D&D isn't a freeform game.

 

[Kichwas]

This whole discussion is so 2000-and-late

Lame yeah... but come on...

I left this place and gaming right after 4E came out (for completely unrelated reasons known as the economic crash).
- And this conversation and these edition wars were the conversation then.

It made sense in 2008, 4E was new.

But good lord people... to keep up an argument for what is now almost 3 years?

/facepalm.

I figured when I showed up here there'd be some kind of new conversation going on somewhere...

 

[ProfessorCirno]

This whole discussion is so 2000-and-late

Lame yeah... but come on...

I left this place and gaming right after 4E came out (for completely unrelated reasons known as the economic crash).
- And this conversation and these edition wars were the conversation then.

It made sense in 2008, 4E was new.

But good lord people... to keep up an argument for what is now almost 3 years?

/facepalm.

I figured when I showed up here there'd be some kind of new conversation going on somewhere...

Welcome back! A 5th edition thread should be along any day now to help you catch up on what you've been missing in those three years

 

[Lanefan]

What is folly is the idea that changing and/or throwing out most the rules means you're still playing the same game.

The game is the rules. Literally. Monopoly is the game where you move your pieces across the board and buy property and generally try to screw over the other players. L5R4 is the game where you roll d10's and keep a certain number to score over thresholds, and you have stats for ettiquette and combat alike.

And D&D3e is a game where you roll your knowledge skill for knowledge checks, and you roll your diplomacy for diplomacy checks, and you roll your strength for strength checks. If you throw all that out, you are no longer playing the game. You are playing a very heavily houseruled version, certainly, but you can't hold that version up and say "See, this is 3.x."

Yet D+D as a whole is built on the explicitly stated foundation that most of the "rules" are not in fact intended to be cast in stone, but are presented merely as guidelines - a framework to be tweaked or altered as seen fit by any given DM and-or group.

In D+D's case, the core rules are only part of the game; every houserule ever written is the rest - which makes D+D different from just about any other game out there.

Lanefan

 

[ExploderWizard]

What is folly is the idea that changing and/or throwing out most the rules means you're still playing the same game.

Who says you have to play the same game? The joy of D&D and many rpgs actually, is that the rules can be hashed out by the participants to provide the desired game experience.

The game is the rules. Literally. Monopoly is the game where you move your pieces across the board and buy property and generally try to screw over the other players. L5R4 is the game where you roll d10's and keep a certain number to score over thresholds, and you have stats for ettiquette and combat alike.

There are major differences between cooperative rpgs and competitive board games. There is actually a reason that rpgs are not simply classified as board, dice, or card games.

And D&D3e is a game where you roll your knowledge skill for knowledge checks, and you roll your diplomacy for diplomacy checks, and you roll your strength for strength checks. If you throw all that out, you are no longer playing the game. You are playing a very heavily houseruled version, certainly, but you can't hold that version up and say "See, this is 3.x."

If everyone at the table is enjoying the game including whatever combination of official and houserules are in play then I really don't care if the game isn't fully officially brand X.

This is what is meant by "Playing tea party;" when the rules - typically skills - are thrown out and players just freeform everything. Freeform can be a lot of fun, but D&D isn't a freeform game.

We were "playing tea party", making stuff up as we went and having a blast long before we even knew what skill check was, oh and we were playing D&D by the way because the game didn't have all that stuff at the time. I will say that modern D&D as written is not a freeform game certainly but modern D&D is not the only D&D.