Bat Aside vs. solo monster (or last man standing)?

[Ladislaus]

First of all, here is the relevant portion of Bat Aside:

Effect: You slide the target 5 squares to a square adjacent to one or more of its allies. You knock the target prone and also knock prone each one of its allies adjacent to it.​

The cases where questions arise are...

• What happens if Bat Aside is used against a solo monster (where no allies are present)?
• What about when the power is used against the "last man standing" (i.e., all of the target's allies are dead)?

Does the "Effect" line of the power fizzle in either or both (or none) of these cases?

 

[Mort_Q]

In this case, like most, RAI > RAW. The adjacent ally stuff seems intended to make the power more useful, not to limit it.

In both cases, I'd let the player bat the target 5 squares and knock it prone.

RAW, you don't need to use the forced movement, so the knocking it prone is still cool regardless.

 

[the Jester]

Hmmm... I'd prolly rule that, since there isn't an eligible space for the slide to put the target in, there is no slide. But yeah, the rest would work fine.

 

[UltimaGabe]

Wow. Talk about a power needed errata. Did the possibility of using that on a single enemy not cross anybody's mind from conception to print?

 

[Mort_Q]

Something like this sound better?

Effect: You slide the target 5 squares and you knock it prone. If the target ends up in a square adjacent to one or more of its allies, you knock prone each one of its allies adjacent to it.​

Thoughts?

 

[DracoSuave]

Power's fine as is. To get the slide, you need enemies to slide him into. Prone works fine tho.

The idea is that it's taking an enemy, and bowling him into other enemies. Failing that, it's just an ordinary trip-style attack.

It's an Effect: Knock Prone, which is amazing as it is. No need to buff it up.

 

[Mort_Q]

Can't agree.

No slide, no prone allies; that'd I'd buy.

No allies, no slide; that I can't.

 

[DracoSuave]

Can't agree.

No slide, no prone allies; that'd I'd buy.

No allies, no slide; that I can't.

Here's the question; what happens if he has allies but you want to slide him somewhere else?

The answer's very simple: No, you need to go to his allies, otherwise that entire power's text about it has no real effect.

What you -can- do, however (and it's kind of surprising no one's mentioned this):

You -can- slide him adjacent to a defeated ally of his. That's perfectly legitimate.

That said, this is clearly a multi-enemy-is-good power. If the player waits until after the enemies are defeated in order to use it, that's not exactly cool for him to start the 'But I want to use my cool powers!' argument; he had plenty of opportunity in the battle already. While I feel that some generosity is a good idea for DM interpretation in practice, in this specific instance, no. He's decided not to use his tool until after it stopped being useful. I don't feel it's my job to make up for what is essentially, a player mistake. And, who cares, he can use it next battle.

 

[Mort_Q]

I'm not arguing with the RAW interpretation. I know what it says.

I'm arguing that the power as written is needlessly limited.

 

[KarinsDad]

You -can- slide him adjacent to a defeated ally of his. That's perfectly legitimate.

By defeated you mean dead (and most defeated enemies are typically dead), then this might be a bit problematic.

Most occurances of the words Ally or Enemy in the rules indicate a living creature. For example, the Occupied Squares rule.

Can a dead body be an Ally? I don't think so.

Otherwise, “ally” or “allies” does not include you, and both terms assume willing targets.

How can the corpse of a dead creature be willing?


This is no different than ruling that a dead PC in an area effect makes the caster elligible for the Coordinated Explosion bonus.


Using dead allies to trigger or allow effects seems pretty darn cheesy.


Even Raise Dead indicates that one must have part of the corpse of the creature, not part of the creature and that the soul is returned. If the soul of a dead creature is gone, how is the corpse an ally? A former ally, sure.