BBEG about to get creamed, how evil should a DM be?

[Dolza]

Ok, here's the situation: My players are running through the final instalment of the Istivilin encounters in Dungeon magazine. They're almost through with the Underdark portion of the adventure. All they have left to do is fight Derakshan, 6 umber hulks, a chasme demon, and a 11th level Evoker.

The party consists of
Ftr9/Sor1/Wereboar3
Pal4/Ftr3/Kensai6- has an adamantine axe
Spirit Shaman11- focused on summoning and augmenting his beasties
Mnk4/Wiz3/Arcane Fist 6 (basicly sacred fist with arcane requirements the player wanted something like this before complete arcane came out so we worked it out together.)


The PCs are all 13th level except for the follower she's 11th. Right now they are headed to the 3rd level of caves to where the Derakshan's chamber and the umber hulk lair is. The party is very melee heavy and one party member has an adamantine axe. Derakshan has stoneskin but that will be easy to get through with the adamantine.

I guess my question is this, how mean and evil should Derakshan be? Could he get the Evoker to try and disintegrate the axe if he knows its adamantine? What other tactics could he employ to even things up a little bit? The tactics section says if he knows they're coming he prepares accordingly and fights in his room before retreating to his temple. Should I just move him along to the temple? He knows the party is coming. He's already sent someone to parley with them and they refused.

All he has left to help him fight are his altar, 1 chasme demon, 5 umber hulks and the Evoker who's used about 1/3 of his spells fighting the party so far. Should he send the Chasme demon or the Umber Hulks on to wear them down a little more or get them to join him in the final fight?

I want things to be challenging but not overwhelming for the party. The problem is I've never had to dm a party at this level and have never really played at this level before so all their powers and abilities are taking some getting used to.

Thanks for any help

Dolza

 

[Feyd Rautha]

Ok, here's the situation: My players are running through the final instalment of the Istivilin encounters in Dungeon magazine. They're almost through with the Underdark portion of the adventure. All they have left to do is fight Derakshan, 6 umber hulks, a chasme demon, and a 11th level Evoker.

Ahh a respectable fight... To arms!

The party consists of
Ftr9/Sor1/Wereboar3
Pal4/Ftr3/Kensai6- has an adamantine axe
Spirit Shaman11- focused on summoning and augmenting his beasties
Mnk4/Wiz3/Arcane Fist 6 (basicly sacred fist with arcane requirements the player wanted something like this before complete arcane came out so we worked it out together.)

Wereboar eh? Okay then...

The PCs are all 13th level except for the follower she's 11th. Right now they are headed to the 3rd level of caves to where the Derakshan's chamber and the umber hulk lair is. The party is very melee heavy and one party member has an adamantine axe. Derakshan has stoneskin but that will be easy to get through with the adamantine.

I guess my question is this, how mean and evil should Derakshan be? Could he get the Evoker to try and disintegrate the axe if he knows its adamantine? What other tactics could he employ to even things up a little bit? The tactics section says if he knows they're coming he prepares accordingly and fights in his room before retreating to his temple. Should I just move him along to the temple? He knows the party is coming. He's already sent someone to parley with them and they refused.

All he has left to help him fight are his altar, 1 chasme demon, 5 umber hulks and the Evoker who's used about 1/3 of his spells fighting the party so far. Should he send the Chasme demon or the Umber Hulks on to wear them down a little more or get them to join him in the final fight?

I want things to be challenging but not overwhelming for the party. The problem is I've never had to dm a party at this level and have never really played at this level before so all their powers and abilities are taking some getting used to.

Thanks for any help

Dolza

What is Derakshan? What kind of powers does he have? What are his motivations? Sorry...haven't read the module. As for what you should do? Well...since I doubt they want to all die horribly and they have at least two intelligent enemies they are approaching then I suggest the following...

1.) Locations: Derakshan and the Evoker are at the far end of the room behind a wall or barrier if possible, the Chasme demon is hiding in the rafters or flying near the roof, and the umber hulks are hidden in the walls within tremorsense of the center of the room.

2.) Prep: Derakshan and the Evoker have up any spells they have as buffs since they know the PCs are coming. The chasme demon has his spell-like abilities active (see invis I believe). The Umber Hulks have simple orders to enter and attack when they hear a big BOOM in the center of the room.

3.) Round 1: They pontificate and tell the pcs to give up until the PCs enter the center of the room. Derakshan tells them that he wouldn't move an inch if he were them. Derakshan casts a round per level buff or a wall effect. The Evoker drops a fireball or other blaster in the center of the room on the party, and the Chasme demon swoops down and uses his drone power to put any poor will savers to sleep.

4.) Round 2: The umber hulks enter at the top of the combat and try to confuse the entire party. They surround them as the chasme demon drones and then swoops to attack the shaman. Derakshan buffs another 1 round/level spell and the evoker magic missiles.

5.) Round 3: If it isn't over by now then have them keep making will saves, have the chasme demon grapple and fly away with the spirit shaman, and have the bosses rain death upon them. Alternatively, you could simply have the evoker and darekshan walk away as the PCs deal with the umber hulks and chasme demon. 5 umber hulks and the demon alone are probably overhwelming to the said party. Especially when they flip the wereboar and he starts killing and infecting party members.

Really this is a bad news combat for the PCs they're hosed.

 

[Bryan898]

I think the encounter's going to be tough as is, 6 umber hulks are no laughing matter. The easier solution may be to give the Evoker a scroll of Summon Monster if things go badly. Then you can summon whatever you think may help the fight, a blue Slaad or barbed Devil would work nicely.

Destroying a kensai's favored weapon is kinda mean, and the player will likely get bitter. Plus the disintegrate probably won't destroy the axe, which would possibly make it a waste. An adamantite greataxe has hardness 20 and hp 13. If said greataxe is +5 it has hardness 30 and 63 hit points (per rules stated on pg 165 PhB). The axe will get to use the players save against the spell effect, and seeing as his base is +7 and he's a paladin to boot, he'll likely make the Will save. Even a +3 axe will not be destroyed by one disintegrate at full damage, as long as the save is made.

 

[Dolza]

Thanks for the advice. I'll clarify a couple of things.

Derakshan is a 14th level cleric of the Elder Elemental Eye. Domains are Evil and Earth. Right now he's trying to get one of his captives to tell him how to destroy an entity that's trying to take over the city of Istivilin. The drow have already infiltrated the city and are fighting the Malagoth. He tried to get the party to work with him but they refused. they did not like his methods.

And yes, he's a wereboar. He was reincarnated as such. He is the only character from the original campaign i ran a couple of years back, it was my first and things sometimes....ok often, got out of hand. I'm learning as i go. :\ We decided to make the wereboard take 3 levels so that he wouldn't jump so dramaticly in power.

I think you're right on the money here. Individually none of them are a decent challenge for the party but all together they might just do it. They have good saves for the most part so i'll have them keep making them every round and this might be enough opponents to spread the damage around some.

I dont have the book of vile darkness so i'm kind of at a loss for a couple of the chasme's spells. not sure what a couple of them do, wave of grief and circle of nausea....i think those are the only two. I'm not sure what their range is but since the room is so small it shouldnt really matter. the altar room is 35'x35' square basicly. I think this will work. I'll have the demon hiding in the stalagtites in the ceiling and wait for the party. The Evoker has stayed improved invis so far, he only has 27 hps so one or two shots from the fighters would take him out of things.

Thanks again Feyd Rautha for helping my somewhat out of control game get slightly on the tracks. I get embarassed sometimes by how my group looks but hey, what can I say, i'm the new guy and the rest of the group has been playing since the 70's!

dolza

 

[Dolza]

"Destroying a kensai's favored weapon is kinda mean, and the player will likely get bitter."


The reason for destroying the weapon was it does so much blasted damage! I mean, being a kensai he's added a ton of powers to it and he's using monkey grip to use an oversided axe to begin with. But i guess you're right. Breaking it would only make him bitter....it would really help me out though. I just wanted to even things back up.

"Then you can summon whatever you think may help the fight, a blue Slaad or barbed Devil would work nicely."

I just have to be able to summon more than one thing. If there aren't enough the party will be able to mow through them. Any one monster is going to have trouble unless they can incapacitate at least one of the party. They had fought agains a Vrock in an earlier encounter and went well. Maybe if i brought in a couple of Vrocks that would be better than 6 umber hulks. They still pack plenty of punch and they have some special abilities that help them in combat.

Thanks Bryan898!

dolza

 

[Feyd Rautha]

Maybe if i brought in a couple of Vrocks that would be better than 6 umber hulks. They still pack plenty of punch and they have some special abilities that help them in combat.

Oh my... you can change some things about the final combat? Well then! If you're not concerned about destroying them then by all means make it 3 vrocks.

Precombat: buff up (mirror image, heroism) since they know the PCs are coming, Greater invis the evoker and have him focus on damaging the entire group or particular high hp characters, buff up the cleric and have him drop Spike Stones through the center of the room and every square 15' from the wall. Ensure that the evoker and cleric have protection from energy electric up!!!

Round 1: One word: Blasphemy. The entire party is stunned for a round and drained of 2d6 strength. Vrocks start dancing emitting their spores near the PCs and the wizard blasts.

Round 2: Oh look... BLASPHEMY (2d6 more strength)! Vrocks enter round 2 of their dancing and emitting their spores near the other PCs. Wizard blasts.

Round 3: Cleric will probably be out of blasphemies (unless he memmed his full allotment of 3 **strongly recommended**) but if not the you guessed it. If so then he should cast a 1 round per level buff and take cover!!! The wizard should ethereal jaunt or take cover and blast. The PCs will be active this round and will HAVE to kill, paralyze, or stun a vrock or take 20d6 electric save for half. That should soften them up nicely.

Round 4: Cleric casts unholy blight, 2 Vrocks enter melee with a vengance dropping their spores as the third does a stunning screech, Wizard blasts.

Round 5: etc. etc. etc.

If they survive I'd be surprised so it's your call. I would say that Demons and Devils are probably the most underrated CR creatures out there.

Peace...

 

[the Jester]

Have no compunctions about disintegrating or sundering that axe. Do it if your villain would do it. Hell, I destroyed the party's tank's super cool weapon a while back in my campaign, and he got over it.

 

[moritheil]

IMHO disintegrates should always just be targeted at the players themselves, not at weapons. Sure, you eradicate that character, but it's fighting fair, as opposed to a blow beneath the belt.

Of course, it's your campaign, and you are the one who knows best whether or not the player really deserves it.

And as Mr. J says, if the villan would do it, there's nothing wrong with doing it. You're just playing your NPC.

"Destroying a kensai's favored weapon is kinda mean, and the player will likely get bitter."

The reason for destroying the weapon was it does so much blasted damage! I mean, being a kensai he's added a ton of powers to it and he's using monkey grip to use an oversided axe to begin with. But i guess you're right. Breaking it would only make him bitter....it would really help me out though. I just wanted to even things back up.

 

[Dolza]

Beaten but not creamed

So we had the big fight last friday. Before being taken out of the fight completely by an air elemental, the chasme held the party off long enough for the BBEG to buff himself with plenty of spells and prepare for the party. The combonation of a blasphemy or two and a blade barrier worked quite well on the party. Killed two before the dust finally settled. of course only one stayed dead thanks to the Spirit Shaman's ability to recall a spirit. None the less i felt like things worked out well. I gave the party a run for their money and didn't even have to do anything too underhanded.

Thanks for the tips last week you guys were really a help to me. I used the umber hulks listed in the adventure instead of opting for something different/harder like vrocks. For fairness issues, i lowered the number to 4 instead of 6. By the time they had gotten to this fight i had pretty much tapped them for spells across the board and anything more than those three hulks would have been that "wafer thin mint" that the party simply could not eat with out inducing a TPK.

Next time, they have to make it back to the city and fight the really big bad evil thing to cap off the adventure and save the city! Fortunately for me they think things are over and now they can sit back and count treasure. surprise!

dolza

 

[Shellman]

If you combine the bad guy's so the CR is maybe two or three higher than the party's CR that should prove to be a tough but fair and challenging fight.