D&D 5E Beastmaster's animal companion: can it survive for 2 rounds?

[Pseudopsyche]

Yes, the beastmaster is noticeably underpowered, and I am not a power gamer who usually worries about that sort of thing. But this one was so noticeable to me, that I just asked Mearls how much playtesting it got. It seems to me the CR of the animal should be 1/4 your level (rounded down), not 1/4 total.

It's not like we have no basis for comparison. You don't need to compare it to a prior version of the game or a novel - you compare it to the hunter ranger in this very game, and it's noticeably underpowered.

Let's at least judge the ranger by the version that appears in the book. The animal's base stats are CR 1/4, but you add the ranger's proficiency bonus to AC, attack rolls, and damage rolls, as well as the skills and saves the ranger is proficient in. The companion also has HP equal to the ranger's level times 4, if its base HP is not already higher. Once we see the monster design guidelines in the DMG, we'll be able to gauge the actual effective CR of the animal companion, but I'm certain it will be above 1/4.

 

[bganon]

Yes, at level 11, your wolf companion has 44 hp, AC 17, and when you command it to attack it makes two attacks at +8 (probably with advantage) for 2d4+6 damage each, with a small chance of knocking the target prone. And you still get one attack yourself that turn. Your own attack, AC, and damage are better by only a few points, and your hp likely in the low 70s. Debatably, at level 15 the wolf can also use your Hunter's Mark.

So the animal companion is fragile, but every attack against the wolf is an attack that isn't targeting you or someone in your party. And their damage output is not shabby at all, they make it even easier for the Rogue to sneak attack, provide extra scouting ability, etc...

Honestly, if the companion were much better they'd be on par with a party member, and that seems like too much.

 

[Mistwell]

I think if they added proficiency bonus to their special attacks, and they gained "treat attacks as magical" at higher levels, that would help a lot.

 

[rjfTrebor]

I think if they added proficiency bonus to their special attacks, and they gained "treat attacks as magical" at higher levels, that would help a lot.

i disagree on the magic attacks thing. there's no in-game reason why a dog can suddenly do full damage to a golem when a 20th level fighter with a mundane sword can't.

 

[gweinel]

I think that the beastmaster is part of a greater issue that has to do with the management of the creatures. Have in mind they avoided also to give druid an animal companion (what a pity) and they didn't give summoning spells to the wizards (at least in the form of the summoning spells of the 3rde) (what a pity x2).

I think is a problematic issue that they couldn't solve and they decided just to put a subclass and a some spells just to cover the minimal demands. Maybe they will adress this problem in the future.

 

[Juriel]

Beastmaster sucks, but...

Animal barding: start with chain AC 16 for 300g, end with plate AC 18 for 6000g. Once you add the proficiency to that, you are going into respectable 21+ territory.

Currently, the absolute best animal option is Giant Poisonous Snake, with 10ft reach and 3d6 poison that does half damage even on successful save.

I think their handling of the beast is clumsy, and looks insane when compared to summons all acting as independent entities... but with a bit of fiddling around, you can make a Beastmaster work.

The biggest issue, once you have enough levels for the beast to have some HP, is that it takes up party healing resources if you want it to be around for the whole adventuring day. And that no available beasts seem to have proficiency in any saves, so any effect catches them.

 

[Juriel]

I think it bears pointing out, that a 5th-level Druid can Conjure Animals, which gets them 8 x CR 1/4 critters who act independently... Which, using Giant Poisonous Snakes, would mean 8 x +4 1d4+4+3d6 (save for half) coming in.

It is concentration, and takes up their highest slot for the moment, but that one spell would also do more damage in 2 turns than the whole Beastmaster archetype over the day. As well as forming an impenetrable wall of meat between you and whatever, as you have enough bodies to fill all the squares, and they can all still attack/OA with that reach...

 

[ppaladin123]

I think it bears pointing out, that a 5th-level Druid can Conjure Animals, which gets them 8 x CR 1/4 critters who act independently... Which, using Giant Poisonous Snakes, would mean 8 x +4 1d4+4+3d6 (save for half) coming in.

It is concentration, and takes up their highest slot for the moment, but that one spell would also do more damage in 2 turns than the whole Beastmaster archetype over the day. As well as forming an impenetrable wall of meat between you and whatever, as you have enough bodies to fill all the squares, and they can all still attack/OA with that reach...

This is what made summoners and necromancers so darn annoying in 3.5e.....their turns ended up taking 10 minutes as they decided on what each of their 10 minions did. I am sorry to see that coming back even if "minion master" and "army of the dead" are iconic fantasy tropes.

 

[Giltonio_Santos]

I think the companion is fair and balanced as is, except for the ability to sustain damage, that is seriously lacking. In fact, I'd be fine with the beastmaster being the exploration-focused ranger and the animal companion being used for things other than combat, but this is not what the archetype features are telling me: almost every benefit to the animal companion is combat related.

The beastmaster ranger is clearly a combat choice. First, it's balanced against another combat choice (the hunter), second, it brings no feature related to out of combat situations. The ability to see through the eyes of the beast is one that comes to my mind, and the beastmaster doesn't get that or any other similarly exploration-related feature. As I see it, it's just a weak combat-related option, not a non-combative option.

 

[pming]

Hiya.

I think it bears pointing out, that a 5th-level Druid can Conjure Animals, which gets them 8 x CR 1/4 critters who act independently... Which, using Giant Poisonous Snakes, would mean 8 x +4 1d4+4+3d6 (save for half) coming in.

It is concentration, and takes up their highest slot for the moment, but that one spell would also do more damage in 2 turns than the whole Beastmaster archetype over the day. As well as forming an impenetrable wall of meat between you and whatever, as you have enough bodies to fill all the squares, and they can all still attack/OA with that reach...

Poisonous Snake: +5th, 1 damage, DC10 Con save for 2d4 (or half).

I'm not sure where you got that 3d6 thing...? Anyway, with the +5 to hit, I'd figure about 5 or 6 would hit PC's of median AC (12 to 15), so grand total is between 10 and 54 damage (so, what, call it 32 average?). The snakes only have 2hp each, and we are talking 5th level guys here...so those snakes will likely be dead in one, maybe two rounds (area spell, general attacks, flasks of oil, etc). I don't think I'd worry about anything "overpowerful" in that spell...

^_^

Paul L. Ming