Beefing up a monk

[Belbarid]

It always amazes me when people when people complain about a class being "weak", judging solely on combat effectiveness. If that's your sole criteria for an effective class, stick to fighter or Arcane Blaster. Monks, Rogues, Rangers, and Bards aren't combat classes, and aren't meant to be.

I tend to play these classes so I can have something to do outside combat. Fighters are great at damage dealing, but are generally worthless outside combat. 2+ skill points, limited skill selection, and no non-combat class features. Whereas a Ranger gets a good BAB, 2 good saves, good skill points, some great skills to select from, and some really usefull class features. Monks don't get quite the skill selection that Rangers do, but have some killer abilities.

Right now, I'm playing an Elven Ranger. I've got moderate combat abilities, but the Minotaur Scout and the Human Fighter are hands-down the combat tanks. I usually just provide flanking bonuses and a little damage. On the other hand, I'm also the point man, having Spot, Listen, and Search skills in the double digits at 5th level. I can't say for sure that the party would be dead by now without my Ranger, but the fact that I rarely miss a Spot or Listen check has gotten us out of more than a few ambushes, and once or twice allowed us to start combat at long range against melee/grappling type monsters. Survival has come in handy more than a few times, trekking through the desert or tracking down people we were supposed to find. Sure, when we find them, I tend to step back and let the tanks... well, Tank, but I wouldn't say I play a weak character.

Specific to the thread though (sorry about the rant), I tend to not like multiclassing Monks, although I've done it before. Problem is, you often have to give up being a Monk to do it. Monk/Initiate of Draconic Mysteries is great (been mentioned, I know). For 3.0E, Monk/Weaponmaster will deal out some damage. Incidently, did Weaponmaster make it to 3.5? Monk/Paladin with Ascetic Knight, then moving into Annointed Knight or possibly Fist of Raziel (CD? BoED?) will make for a powerful Evil-Basher. Monk/Ninja complement well- just make sure you have everything you want out of a Monk before you make the switch.

Or just start taking Fighter levels. You'll get a *lot* better at combat and will be able to take more grappling-type feats, and get them faster.

 

[Scion]

Do you mean something like the Psionic Fist in the SRD?

Do you mean for the 'modify' part of the statement? Sure. However, it would need a bit of a change to be A) more effective at grappling and B) more effective in general

 

[mikebr99]

Incidently, did Weaponmaster make it to 3.5?

It's now the Exotic Weaponmaster CW... a 3 level PrC.


Mike

 

[IamIan]

Grapple

People often over look the power of grapple....

as a Touch attack to grab.. It ignores, Armor to AC ... It ignores Shiled to AC... Ignores Natural AC.... If the enemy is bluffed ( combat fient ) or caught not ready they also have no Dex or Dodge... Grapple is a great way to reduce the enemies AC to hit them....

Size is important in a grapple going from medium to large gives a +4 size bonouse to grapple.... In 3.0 there were gloves of fearsome grip ( sword and fist ) that gave another +5 to grapple checks .... Improved grapple feat gives another +4... together that is +4+4+5 = +13 +Base Attack +Str..... all the time ignoring Armor, Shield, Natural AC.... that is big...

In 3.0 Oriental Adventures There are 2 useful feats...

Earth's Embrace If you pin your grapple opponent you do automatic critical damage ( x2 is always good for damage )

Grapplng Block : Kind of like deflect arrows expect it is for melees attacks and has the benefit of if your grapple roll beets the attack roll by enough you also disarm them. now that they ae weaponless it provokes an attack of opertunity ... which you grapple them with ... you pin them and earth's embrace gives you critical.

 

[Lord Wyrm]

Don't forget Karmic Strike and Defensive Throw.

Oh look you missed me, AoO. Oh look, you hit me, AoO. I had a PC Paladin run and hide from a monk who did this. Wow he fell fast.

 

[nittanytbone]

Yeah. But sometimes a pessimistic opinion helps more than an optimistic opinion to realize that monks do need big bumps (and clever coordinate) to become an efficient character. Isn't it?

...that [insert class name] do need big bumps (and clever coordinate) to become an efficient character.

I've seen some pretty poor builds on any class, fighters in particular (all those feat choices can sometimes just mean more chances to screw up and pick something useless). Now on to some ideas to salvage this...

Strength

The first problem is that the player did not assign his ability scores wisely. It is probably too late to go back and fix that short of a wish or psionic readjustment or something, but such measures could allow for repositioning of stats. For the time being, the player should count on buffing the 13 str to 14 at level 8 and investing in a good +4 str enhancement item (belt of giant strength comes to mind). These steps will also help keep him out of medium or heavy encumbrance ranges which make bad things happen to speed and AC.

I hope his choice of feats wasn't too silly. At first level for his bonus feat he better have taken "improved grapple." If he took "combat reflexes" at 2nd level its wasted because he's always grappling. The improved grapple +4 bonus to grapple checks is key for his fighting style. He should be using weapons that enhance his choice of Improved Trip or Improved Disarm at 6th level.

Improving Damage

If he's high dex, he should get some magic ammunition (shuriken). +1 holy ammo would be pretty effective and its reasonably priced, especially compared to a magic weapon (1/50th the cost!).

He should invest in an item that augments natural weapons as suggested above.

Monks are in a better position than anyone else to bypass DR. He automatically bypasses magic DR, and he should have light weapons that are silvered and made of cold iron, which takes care of the biggest types of DR. So he doesn't have any right to complain there.

Skills

The monk should look into investing into escape artist for sure (to get out of grapples that go sour) as well as tumble (to make good use of his high speed, racing past the front line of the enemy to nail the guys in the back).

Bottom Line

If the player is still sad, you can always take a look at the 1E monk (check out the XP chart! Its the most punishing in the game. And you have to fight for level ups from 8th level on!). The 3.5 monk is VASTLY improved from that one. Also check out "http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20050520a".

"How does one handle a group of well-established characters when some of them are well planned and developed, and others -- well -- aren't? Player preparation tends to show in combat and can often mean the difference between character life and death. What's a DM supposed to do when three players have done their homework well enough to make sure their characters achieve the desired results, and the fourth one hasn't?"

Good luck!

 

[RigaMortus2]

Also make sure he picks up Improved Natural Attack as soon as possible!

 

[Acidic_Dao]

Got some ideas

He needs a monks belt, find the info at http://d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#beltMonks a wonderful item for a monk that I always try to get early on. Also, try to use flurry of blows more often. Also, make sure you get stunning blow. A strategic attack that renders a foe nearly helpless so his allies can destroy him. Or so the monk can destroy him if he can make 2 attacks per turn. The victim loses 2 points to AC as well as any dex bonus to AC. They can't attack the next turn either assuming the get stunned.

 

[Demoquin]

Also if they are stunned .. they drop anything in their hands. Weapons/ Shield/ Spell compnents, whatever. That could be an extra AoO to either grapple them or trip them while they are going down to reach for it. Then maybe another AoO for them to get back up.

 

[Taloras]

Im currently playing a Goliath Monk 6/Fighter 1 (DM removed the multiclassing restriction if it fits the character. so no multiclassing into something just for a benefit with no apparent reason). Str of 20, Dex of 16. Improved Grapple. Earth's Embrace(3.5 version that does an extra 1d12 damage on a pin, not a crit).

The character has a +10 to hit(+9/+9 if flurrying). He has a +18 to grapple (+5 str, +5 BAB, +4 Improved Grapple, +4 powerful build). When the sorceress casts Enlarge Person, that jumps to +22(extra +4 from size, +2 to str balances out with the -1 to attack for size). First round he moves in to grapple whatever caster he can find. It has worked out QUITE well so far.

So not all monk grapplers are screwed....