Ben Riggs Interview Part 2

[shannonrampe]

I recently had the opportunity to interview Ben Riggs, tabletop RPG historian and author of Slaying the Dragon: a Secret History of Dungeons and Dragons, about his predictions regarding the end of the golden age of TTRPGs. The first half of the interview generated some lively discussion here on EN World, and I appreciate those who read and weighed in with their thoughts.

The second half of the interview is now available on the GM Cellar Blog. In this half of the interview, Ben discusses Wizards' attempts to create a digital walled garden, Critical Role viewing stats, and reactions to his book, Slaying the Dragon. Hope you enjoy it!

https://www.gmcellar.com/blog/ben-riggs-and-the-death-of-the-golden-age-of-ttrpgs-pt-2

Part 1 for those who missed it: https://www.gmcellar.com/blog/ben-riggs-and-the-death-of-the-golden-age-of-ttrpgs-part-1

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

A lot of jumping to conclusions in this part, too.

I'm hardly a WotC cheerleader, but a lot of this is just catastrophizing.

Ben saying he has "experience" is highly misleading here, since his experience is "I talked to people who worked at the company years ago and may be in contact with some people who are there now but whom I can't name." As he says later on, he's a middle school teacher, not someone who's worked in publishing, not someone who's worked for WotC himself.

Does WotC want to wall everything off in D&D Beyond? I dunno, but if so, putting WotC stuff on Foundry seems like a bad way to go about that.

this process, posting this, seeing the response, has me more concerned that I'm right

Oh, my dude, this is some really woolly thinking. I'd like to think that if one of your kids announced that the pushback to how they're doing their algebra problems just reinforces to them that they're doing it in a secret right way, you wouldn't pat them on the back and tell them that they're a brave truth teller.

And Critical Role has been trending down over the last two years because the US has been opening up post-lockdown during that same period. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills that this is somehow mysterious and indicative of broader issues. (Also, your campaign can only handle having one Scanlan or one Jester. They screwed up group composition really badly in Campaign 3 because everyone was apparently jealous of Laura Bailey having a breakout character.)

 

[FitzTheRuke]

You know how I've said that if he had phrased it as "I'm concerned about the future" rather than "the Golden Age is Over" then I'd have been on board with him?

Well ditto when it comes to "I'm concerned that the Suits at Hasbro don't understand what maked D&D great. From what I'm told, they don't seem to care to learn; they think that they know 'better'. This is usually a recipe for disaster."

I'd have rubbed my chin and said, "Yup. That's very troubling!"

But he has to go and worry about Critical Role numbers and the Matt Coville MCDM RPG - two things that are generally indicative of the overall HEALTH of the industry. (Yes, even the CR numbers. They may have lost viewership, but they are still doing extremely well for themselves, and their losses are easily explained, as @Whizbang Dustyboots points out above). They will be fine.

At any rate, I guess Ben Riggs managed to promote his book so I guess he got what he wanted? Though I wouldn't be surprised if he did a bit of damage to his reputation in the process. I'll still read his next book, but I'm significantly less trusting of his opinions now.

 

[Retreater]

I'm looking forward to reading the interview. He's even more misguidedly "doom and gloom" about the future of the hobby than I am - and that's saying something!

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I'm looking forward to reading the interview. He's even more misguidedly "doom and gloom" about the future of the hobby than I am - and that's saying something!

Strangely enough, I'm more optimistic about the future of the hobby than I am about the future of the world.

Without getting too far into the politics of it - I think both face trouble from the same source: The people who make the decisions are always looking for short-term gains, even at the expense of long-term losses.

 

[payn]

You know how I've said that if he had phrased it as "I'm concerned about the future" rather than "the Golden Age is Over" then I'd have been on board with him?

Where is the clickbait rhetoric in that?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Strangely enough, I'm more optimistic about the future of the hobby than I am about the future of the world.

Without getting too far into the politics of it - I think both face trouble from the same source: The people who make the decisions are always looking for short-term gains, even at the expense of long-term losses.

 

[Retreater]

I liked the "magic fairy dust" imagery used for the suits at Hasbro.

 

[Meech17]

I finished Mr. Riggs' book over this weekend.. I can whole heartedly recommend it. I think he did a really good job of being fair to both Gygax and Williams, two individuals who normally get casted either as a saint incapable of doing wrong or a demon who only exists to destroy the hobby, respectively.

This second half on the interview wasn't particularly eye-opening. I feel a little let down after having to wait a week to read it.

I wonder if Critical Role suffers from the same "Long Tail" problem that D&D and other TTRPGs deal with. Viewership hits a peak for the first season, but people tend to fall off after that.. I'd love to see data on listener numbers for popular actual play podcasts like the Adventure Zone. I wonder how their viewership has held up with each following season. I know the internet seems to be less and less receptive of them, often reminiscing about the good ol' Balance days.. but things I read on Reddit may or may not line up with the numbers.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I liked the "magic fairy dust" imagery used for the suits at Hasbro.

That's the part that rang the truest to me with regards to his whole tirade and subsequent interview!