D&D 5E Berserker Barbarian Fix?

[Setryo]

I have a player that wants to take this subclass. We've looked it over, and quite frankly it sucks. (as the internet is well-aware).

So I'm asking for a fix. On the one hand, removing the exhaustion penalty completely makes it a little insane (on par with "just make an extra attack as a bonus action all the time"). On the other hand, every "fix" I've found involves ways of getting rid of the exhaustion (such as using spells, or removing two each day, etc.)

I think what would be happier for my game is some sort of limiting factor that didnt have anything to do with exhaustion whatsoever. But I can't think of how to do that. Ideas?

 

[GX.Sigma]

What makes you think it sucks? 1 extra attack per round for the most important fight of the day seems better than any of the Totem Spirit features at that level, and 1 level of exhaustion is hardly debilitating. Even level 2 exhaustion isn't so bad, since you get Fast Movement.

 

[spectacle]

You could remove the exhaustiong but make a rule that the Barbarian only gets the bonus attack if he uses his reckless attack option. That will reinforce the image of the berserker who lashes out quickly with no regard for his own safety.

Or you could just get rid of the penalty completely. The bonus action attack isn't as strong as it seems since you can't use it on the first round of combat as you have to use your bonus action to rage, and fights in 5E tend to be over after 2-4 rounds. It may be a bit crazy on levels 3-4 with twice the regular attafcks, but on 5 everyone gets extra attack and the berserker goes down to a more reasonable 50% extra, and there are many other ways to get bonus attacks for that matter.

 

[Horwath]

just remove penalty.

as Spectacle said it's not a big deal. its just for one level (3rd).
on lvl4 most barbarians will take greatweapon master or polearm master so it will not be such a big impact. with polearm master you're just upgrading d4 to d10. Wow, 3 more damage for one attack.

with greatweapon master it's bit more. depending how many mooks are around for cleaving and how lucky do you get.

 

[Rune]

I don't actually agree that the berserker subclass is bad (it's a lot of extra damage on top of a top-tier damage-dealing class). That said, there are a couple of variations that I'd like to try:

The Endurance Burner: Entering a Frenzy does not cause exhaustion at all. Instead, every round that the barbarian is in frenzy costs a hit die (highest value) at the end of the barbarian's turn. If a barbarian in frenzy has no hit dice left, it dies at the end of its turn instead. While in frenzy, the barbarian may not voluntarily leave it, but may use a bonus action to attempt to do so by rolling a Wisdom check (or maybe saving throw) vs. DC 15+the number of rounds spent in the current frenzy. The frenzy also ends if the rage ends. Also, while in frenzy, the barbarian must engage in melee (with friend or foe), if able, and must move as far as possible toward the nearest creature if not.

The Star that Shines Brightest: While in frenzy, the barbarian does not suffer the effects of exhaustion. The barbarian also does not gain a level of exhaustion when the frenzy ends. Instead, every time the barbarian takes damage while in frenzy, it also gains a level of exhaustion. Every time it reduces a foe to 0 hit points while in frenzy, it loses one level of exhaustion. That's it.

 

[Azurewraith]

Just straight up remove it i cant see it being an issue at all its just one attack a round its no worse only a weeny bit better than colossus slayer from a hunter.

 

[MindxKiller]

Honestly, just remove the exhaustion, make it so that you can frenzy a number of times per day equal to half your daily rages (rounded down) using this ability consumes a daily rage. At 11th level, all your rages are frenzied rages.

As it stands now, the ease of which enemies can stop your rage makes it particularly brutal when an enemy uses a crowd control spell on you when you enter your frenzy, instant level of exhaustion and you wasted a daily rage. For an archetype defining feature, that's bad. No other archetype has this kind of drawback to their defining feature. The number of rages you have per day is enough of a limiting factor for frenzy to keep it in line. 1 Frenzy per day until level 6, 2 per day until level 11, then a number equal to your daily rages seems fair, you took the damage archetype after all. Plus this keeps their number of attacks per round in line with a fighter at the level 11 mark, so it certainly isn't overpowered when fighters get action surge per short rest, and before level 11 its a small number of times per day compared to the fighter's reliability. Besides, fighter's also get maneuver dice for even more damage compared to the barbarian. The Paladin will always burst harder than you, the Fighter will always do more average damage, and both of them get fighting styles, but for those 1-2 fights a day in the early levels, you feel good about yourself. I honestly think it's insane that wizards decided to make barbarians the least damaging of the "fighting man" classes, I'm ok with totem being a defensive choice, I'm not ok with berserker being a trap choice.

Barbarians have always been my go to when I wanted to make a martial front-liner, unfortunately as it stands fighters just do it better. More damage with extra attacks and action surge, more options with maneuvers (which also add a hell of a lot of damage.) Sure, their mechanics aren't as flavorful, but you shouldn't need mechanics to role play your character raging. I could just as easily say my fighter flies into a rage as he runs at his enemy. I don't get a mechanical benefit, but story wise it's the exact same outcome. Thankfully most DM's I have had the pleasure to play with allow some house ruling to buff the berserker to a point that it's not a trap, so I've been able to play a fun, competitive, berserker. House rules truly make the berserker a fun archetype to play instead of a gimp.

 

[Mephista]

I have a player that wants to take this subclass. We've looked it over, and quite frankly it sucks. (as the internet is well-aware).

I promise you, it is not aware. The Bear Totem is really good, yes. But that's a reflection of the Bear being better than any others, not everyone else sucking. Berzerker is good at what it does. The first ability is written a bit oddly, but it basically translates to "once a day, you get to make bonus action attacks with a great axe for the duration of your Rage." Which is pretty good against Big Bads like a random giant or a Legendary. Hells, if you're at the end of a story arch and expect downtime, you can go berzerk more than once a day for a bit more power.

I think what would be happier for my game is some sort of limiting factor that didnt have anything to do with exhaustion whatsoever. But I can't think of how to do that. Ideas?

Then drop the exhaustion. Most likely, the barbarian in question will get Great Weapon Mastery, and will be getting bonus action attacks as a matter of course when fighting everything but Big Bads. So, really, we're not doing anything that he's likely not already doing.

 

[S'mon]

You could remove the exhaustiong but make a rule that the Barbarian only gets the bonus attack if he uses his reckless attack option. That will reinforce the image of the berserker who lashes out quickly with no regard for his own safety.

Or you could just get rid of the penalty completely. The bonus action attack isn't as strong as it seems since you can't use it on the first round of combat as you have to use your bonus action to rage, and fights in 5E tend to be over after 2-4 rounds. It may be a bit crazy on levels 3-4 with twice the regular attafcks, but on 5 everyone gets extra attack and the berserker goes down to a more reasonable 50% extra, and there are many other ways to get bonus attacks for that matter.

Yeah, there are plenty of times you can't use your bonus action attack
(notably 1st round entering rage) and plenty of other ways to get a bonus action attack.
What I do is let 5th level Barbarians remove 1 level of exhaustion with a short rest 3/day,
so only 3rd & 4th level berserkers are highly restricted. I find this works well.

 

[Eejit]

It's best to look at the overall package of the subclass IMO.

Level 3 is marginally weaker than the best Totem options in combat, much weaker out of combat.
Level 6 is significantly stronger than any Totem (for combat), weaker out of combat.
Level 10 is better than the Totem option in combat, on par out of combat - but I'd probably still change it to a Bonus action; otherwise it's a rage-ender! Possibly to use Str instead of Cha for DC too.
Level 14 is roughly on par with the best Totem options in combat.

It really doesn't need changed much imo, and not Frenzy if you do tweak.