Best fencing rules?

[RangerWickett]

I'm looking for inspiration for house rules to make duels more interesting than just chopping through each other's "abstract survival points." I come primarily from a D&D/Pathfinder background, but I've fenced a bit so I know things get more complex than two people just hacking at each other.

What sorts of novel fencing or dueling systems have you played? In particular, I'm interested in systems that offer one or more of the following:

a) characters change stances or techniques mid-fight to try to get an upper hand

b) it's possible to defeat an enemy simply by getting the upper hand; for example, maybe you never actually land a blow until the end of the fight, and every 'success' up to that point is simply getting your foe more off-balance so you can deliver a single killing strike

c) there's more nuance than "hit" or "miss," and more reactions between the two duelists than "I make an attack roll" and "I make a parry roll."

And ideally it wouldn't take more than a few minutes to resolve a duel. Any ideas?

 

[Morrus]

I built a fence once. I suggest that your fencing rules include separate skills for reinforcement and weatherproofing. Have you got a sub-table for different wood types?

 

[RangerWickett]

Oh, no, I'm talking about the swordfighting known as fencing. You made an easy but nonetheless silly mistake thinking I was talking about the sort of fences used to define boundaries of property or prevent access to specific areas.

That said, a supplement about fences would probably be quite profitable. There's a huge untapped market. It could be cross-compatible with multiple editions. I mean, I doubt it'll ever reach Fire and Brimstone level success, but I bet literally handfuls of people would download a Complete Book of Fencing that was about fences.

 

[Morrus]

Well, it occurs to me that you don't have to limit it to wooden fences. Supplements on chain, link, and barbed-wire fences would no doubt be popular. I imagine the wrought-iron fence book would need to be a pretty solid hardcover project, though.

 

[Hand of Evil]

Some time ago, I played a card game fencing rules at my local comic book store, don't know where the game came from. Started with your stance and played your cards off that, there were movement cards, defense cards and attack cards. Cards provided a rating: Damage & Guard plus a draw from stack, based on the card, damage ranged from 0 to 3 points, same for Guard, draws were up to three cards but changed based on the type of card, like retreat gave you 3 draws, where lunge only gave 1. You played an action and movement each hand. You won when seven points were done to your foe.

It was interesting game and I wish I could remember the name.

 

[Dungeoneer]

Oh, no, I'm talking about the swordfighting known as fencing. You made an easy but nonetheless silly mistake thinking I was talking about the sort of fences used to define boundaries of property or prevent access to specific areas.

That said, a supplement about fences would probably be quite profitable. There's a huge untapped market. It could be cross-compatible with multiple editions. I mean, I doubt it'll ever reach Fire and Brimstone level success, but I bet literally handfuls of people would download a Complete Book of Fencing that was about fences.

You know, I think someone should do this just so we could see the look on a customer's faces when they opened up their new Complete Book Of Fencing and realized what it was all about.

 

[DonsSword]

Fencing games and rules

Some simple pre-built fencing/dueling board game mechanics: (NOTE: I'm new and can't post links, but if you go to Board Game Geek, you'll find everything you need there)

Star Wars: Episode 1: Clash of the Lightsabers

En Garde by Reiner Knizia

Duell, and update to En Garde:
Scroll to the bottom and you can find complete print your own boards and cards for create your own version.

Flash Duel, by video gamer David Sirlin, which is based off of En Garde

There are a ton of other variants:
Lord of the Rings Duel
Shazamm!

 

[Dungeoneer]

Well, it occurs to me that you don't have to limit it to wooden fences. Supplements on chain, link, and barbed-wire fences would no doubt be popular. I imagine the wrought-iron fence book would need to be a pretty solid hardcover project, though.

What we need to do is separate the fences out by tier. There should be, at minimum, Adventure-tier fences (backyard, white picket), Hero-tier fences (chain-link, barbed wire, wrought iron) and Epic tier fences (electric fence, invisible fence, living fence, wall). Once we know what tier a fence belongs in we can assign hit dice. The existence of hit dice suggests that there are fence-based attacks that players will need to defend against (save vs. splinters, etc.).

Many fences also feature their own ecology, from dire guard dogs barking at you from the other side to dire bunnies burrowing beneath. Heroic-tier adventurers will doubtless quickly learn to beware the Lurking Sprinkler. To appeal to D&D enthusiasts I suggest the addition of the Fence Dragon*. A Random Fence Table will help GMs to quickly introduce exciting fences into their games.

At first glance the issue of signage might seem like it can easily be relegated to a sidebar, but when you realize that a player's response to a sign that says "Keep off the grass" will be tied directly to the alignment system this easily becomes a chapter in and of itself.

For players interested in fences we create the fence-crafting skill, with rules for determining the level of craftsmanship of a new fence as well as other factors such as the length. Of course we will also need a rarity system so that GMs can reward players with fences as part of their loot ("You find 200 gp, 50 electrum, 12 copper, two rubies, and a twelve foot section of wire mesh fencing"). Of course we have to introduce at least one new player class. The Fencemaster controls and corrals the enemy with a variety of fence-based attacks. Additionally Pohst-hol, the God of Fences, will offer a brand new divine domain for Clerics.

I just can't believe nobody has tackled fences before now!

* Not to be confused with the epic tier Dragon Fence.

 

[Bagpuss]

RPG wise you might want to check out.

Flashing Blades by Fantasy Games Unlimited
En Garde!
The Duel by Alternative Armies

 

[GMMichael]

Oh, no, I'm talking about the swordfighting known as fencing.

That was awesome.

Anyway, try the Modos RPG rules:

a) characters change stances or techniques mid-fight to try to get an upper hand

Stance and technique choice are well represented by two things: initiative placement, and posture. The character with higher initiative has the first opportunity to gain better attack rolls by combining actions, and choosing the higher of his die results. Using a movement action to take defensive posture is akin to changing stance, and each duelist can engage at that range for half damage, or do an initiative dance to see who gains the upper hand on re-engagement.

b) it's possible to defeat an enemy simply by getting the upper hand; for example, maybe you never actually land a blow until the end of the fight, and every 'success' up to that point is simply getting your foe more off-balance so you can deliver a single killing strike

Easily handled by the damage rules. Damage is more like "progress" than actual damage, and the GM can easily say, "the first character to reach half-physical damage has received the touche'."

c) there's more nuance than "hit" or "miss," and more reactions between the two duelists than "I make an attack roll" and "I make a parry roll."

This is first handled by the players. The abstract nature of the game allows contests and damage to take the form desired by the players. For example, moving to defensive posture could be "I take the Neumann's defense," or "I hide behind a column!"

Next, you could simply design a matrix with attacks on one column, and defenses on the other. Each box in the matrix features a different bonus, and refers to the interaction between maneuvers, like this:

Attacker bonus	Tiger attack	Lion attack
Bear defense	+3	-3
Tortoise defense	-1	+1

Using a Tiger attack against a Tortoise defense gives the attacker -1. The attacker prefers to switch to the Lion attack, which would give him a +1. It takes him an action to change forms, during which time the defender could become the attacker...

And ideally it wouldn't take more than a few minutes to resolve a duel. Any ideas?

Shouldn't take too long. Physical health is the equivalent of hit points, and max health is equal to a character's physical score. Sure, physical protection would reduce the damage, but if you're only fighting to half health (half damage), it would still be over pretty quick. Damage and protection rolls aren't necessary since you can just take half of the die, but either the player or GM (or both) still need to roll some d20s.