D&D 5E Best Way to Challenge this Sorcadin, without high level spells

[overgeeked]

Want to really challenge them? Give them an escort quest.

evil grin

10ft movement. 1 HP. -2 across the board. AC8.

And all the assassins of the Assassin's Guild are out to get them.

 

[ECMO3]

Says you.

It’s simple. In my games when shield is used on AC 20+ characters, a conversation is had. It doesn’t happen again.

That seems pretty bad. If this is an issue it should be mentioned before play, not after a character gets it and uses it.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Part of this is limiting spells to 2nd level or lower. So yeah, they're going to spam shield, absorb elements, and friggin silvery barbs. They're best in slot spells that don't take an action.

I.m toying with nerfing Silvery Barbs to being limited to no more than proficiency times per short long rest or no one can benefit more than once per day or something.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Yeah that would slow the game down to a crawl and really break the flow if we were constantly pausing for "reaction windows", I'd rather just deal with it being annoying until 5.5e launches and Silvery Barbs is gone

Yeah, its the same problem with those stupid abilities that are "after you roll but before the result is known". Whoever designed that needs to be put in the stocks. It's such a negative play experience.

 

[TheSword]

That seems pretty bad. If this is an issue it should be mentioned before play, not after a character gets it and uses it.

To be clear, I play with a regular group and I’m both Dm and player. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. We’re talking about agreements that build up over many many years of playing. One of which is - if you build a character that’s hyper tuned in one area to be invulnerable then it will end in tears.

Nobody is being penalized here. Nobody is missing out on fun times. It’s about exercising a little self-control for the good of the table. Not every issue in the game is going to be conveniently identified before the campaign starts.

 

[ECMO3]

To be clear, I play with a regular group and I’m both Dm and player. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. We’re talking about agreements that build up over many many years of playing. One of which is - if you build a character that’s hyper tuned in one area to be invulnerable then it will end in tears.

Nobody is being penalized here. Nobody is missing out on fun times. It’s about exercising a little self-control for the good of the table. Not every issue in the game is going to be conveniently identified before the campaign starts.

But having plate, shield and shield spell does not mean hypertuned. That is pathetically easy on a 3 level fighter or a 4-level Warlock or anything with a wizard or sorcerer dip.

Also there is a weakness in the "hands" unless you get warcaster. With plate and shield you need your other hand to cast shield, which means no weapon for AOOs and no wand or spell components. Of course with Warcaster this is not an issue, but then you burned a feat for this.

 

[Scott Christian]

I'm running a 10th level campaign, and one of my players finally did it, they went a Sorcadin.

So I have a character with a 27 AC with shield, +3 add to all saving throws (but often its a +5 to saves to due to 2 other paladins in the party, which also includes resistance to spells). They also have a really high grapple check so they use that to throw down on a lot of the monsters. And throw in some silvery barbs and absorb elements for even more resistance and chaos bringing.

Now here's the trick, this particular game is low magic (no spells higher than 2nd level). I can have some monsters with higher magic because that's how the monster rolls, but I can't have dungeons with high level spells, npcs casting wall of force, etc etc.


Anyone have any good recommendations on good traps, npcs, or monsters to use against this kind of character?

And lastly, lets not get into any debates about changing shield, multiclassing, etc. The character is build has been running for a bit now, I don't want to go back and make new houserules.

A few things:

• Encounters prior to the BBEG
• Lair reactions can be amazingly unforgiving to PCs
• Flying or invisible creatures with the big baddie
• Remember, the big baddie might have magic resistance
• Counterspell, silence, etc.
• Movement can sometimes really work against the PCs
• And sometimes at 10th level you need to throw 15th level encounters at the group

 

[Scott Christian]

I would also like to add that while your sorcadin might be fine after three smaller encounters, the rest of the group might not be. But with a time push, that could also mean the sorcadin might have to play hero. I have found one golden rule while DMing: One min-maxer can make the group extremely strong. But when the group starts to fall, that min-maxer isn't nearly as tough as what they seemed to be.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Not sure if these have been mentioned

• Unhallowed ground which negates their Paladin auras
• Anti-magic terrain
• Sunder their armour + shields with the help of large/huge beasts OR Disarm their shields
• Introduce Sanity for the weird and wonderful experiences which could incur trauma + madness. Experiencing an illithid's psychic blast for the first time or communicating with it telepathically might incur Sanity checks/saves.
• Use Degrees of Success for certain saving throws. Example DC = success with complication, DC+5 = full success
• Ungrappable creatures due to size, or only partial grapples
• Size matters (a) Large creatures - incur save based push/shove/prone with their attacks (b) Huge creatures - As above and opponents have disadvantage on saves + attacks affect terrain (latter miss or hit) (c) Gargantuan creatures - As above, and no save on push/shove/prone
• Reimagine monsters - abilities/magic heightened, 2 examples below

(a) Hold Spells - failure paralyzed, success restrained (requires another saving throw next round to break free)
(b) Incorporeal monsters ignore all armour but Dexterity + Force (think touch attacks) and save failure = maximum hit point loss, save success = no hit point loss but negates healing for the round

• Use Lingering Injuries where applicable in the fiction
• Pervasive Environmental Affects - HD loss, incur Exhaustion, dull senses, gradually restrict movement, sap potency from consumable magic, create feedback on magic
• Stack Class Features/Feats with monsters: Giants who Rage, Wraiths who Smite, Orcs with Two-Handed Fighting Style + Action Surge + 2nd Wind + Indomitable + Relentless Endurance, Demons who Shapeshift in animals with a demonic template, Invisible Stalkers with Sneak Attack, Psionic Goblins who can Levitate/Shield/Telepathy/Telekinesis, Owlbears who place Hunters Mark on their prey etc
• Fiction affects mechanics - perhaps for some reason divine classes unable to access their Deities when night falls (part of the story/campaign) OR the Healing Domain has been affected/sabotaged and a strange incurable disease/plague is spreading which affects even Paladins
• Unnatural Environments such as Underwater/Plane of Water restrict movements and reduces effectiveness of attacks = PCs in heavy armour, shield and slashing weapons etc.
• Heat Metal, Transmute Metal to Something, Rust Monsters, Animate spells that affect their Armour, Shield + Weapons
• Unique Opponents, 2 examples (a) Iron Golem or Artificer with powers of Magneto (b) Reimagined Ebonbane/Intelligent Weapon with the ability to animates blades (no save) around it. Imagine the Paladins disarmed and raising Shields against their own weapons. Essentially the blades would have no saving throw and would have to be free themselves from the Paladins hands (opposed grapple checks).

 

[Horwath]

One solution can be, even if I do not like it personally is:

Highest AC that you can have is 20+prof bonus