Beware this dire warning. Ignore it at your peril!

[James McMurray]

Ok, that's a little overly dramatic. Ok, it's a lot overly dramatic. But it hopefully got you to read the thread.

My warning is about Swallow Whole. It can (and has at least once) caused a player (me) to have the most boring game experience of his life. I was bitten, swallowed, and then sat there for two hours trying to roll a 20 so I could punch for 1d4 damage with my 12th level wizard.

It wasn't the GM's fault. He just grabbed an appropriately leveled solo monster (a purple worm he de-leveled). And it wouldn't have been quite so bad if we'd known about the errata, since I could have at least managed to throw around some magic missiles.

The problem is that by the time you're high enough level to face monsters with swallow whole you've got a good number of powers yourself. And you (if you're like me) enjoy using those powers. If you're not from a class that gives you an At-will as a basic attack, you won't have access to any of your usual attacks. Worse, if you're from a class that normally stinks in basic combat (like wizard or IIRC artificer) you'll be sitting back while your friends beat on an elite or solo monster, slowly watching yourself die.

The highlight of my time in the belly was when I had already died, rolled a 19 (+1 from human perseverance) on my save vs. death, and woke back up momentarily.

I've had characters charge into almost certain death before, but if I ever see something that can swallow me I'm running like hell. Maybe I'll get lucky and find something that will kill me just as dead, but with some excitement.

 

[Syrsuro]

Ok, that's a little overly dramatic. Ok, it's a lot overly dramatic. But it hopefully got you to read the thread.

My warning is about Swallow Whole. It can (and has at least once) caused a player (me) to have the most boring game experience of his life. I was bitten, swallowed, and then sat there for two hours trying to roll a 20 so I could punch for 1d4 damage with my 12th level wizard.

It wasn't the GM's fault. He just grabbed an appropriately leveled solo monster (a purple worm he de-leveled). And it wouldn't have been quite so bad if we'd known about the errata, since I could have at least managed to throw around some magic missiles.

The problem is that by the time you're high enough level to face monsters with swallow whole you've got a good number of powers yourself. And you (if you're like me) enjoy using those powers. If you're not from a class that gives you an At-will as a basic attack, you won't have access to any of your usual attacks. Worse, if you're from a class that normally stinks in basic combat (like wizard or IIRC artificer) you'll be sitting back while your friends beat on an elite or solo monster, slowly watching yourself die.

The highlight of my time in the belly was when I had already died, rolled a 19 (+1 from human perseverance) on my save vs. death, and woke back up momentarily.

I've had characters charge into almost certain death before, but if I ever see something that can swallow me I'm running like hell. Maybe I'll get lucky and find something that will kill me just as dead, but with some excitement.

1) How is this different from prior versions of the game?
2) Isn't it a good thing if a creature can actually inspire fear? Isn't that the point of abilities such as this?
3) Why couldn't you make attacks? Sure, your melee may suck, but you can still attack. "Sitting back" just isn't in my vocabulary.
4) You survived 2 hours at 20 points per round? I'm impressed.

Carl

 

[IceFractal]

Isn't it a good thing if a creature can actually inspire fear? Isn't that the point of abilities such as this?

Isn't it a good thing that Save-or-Die abilties can actually inspire fear? Or long-lasting mind control? Or 3E-style Hold Person? Or 3E-style colossal-sized grappling? Since they specifically removed all of these abilties from 4E, I'd guess the answer is "no", as far as 4E is concerned.

3) Why couldn't you make attacks? Sure, your melee may suck, but you can still attack. "Sitting back" just isn't in my vocabulary.

When you have a 5% chance of dealing 1% of the foe's HP, that's not really contributing. Rolling dice with virtually no purpose barely even counts as playing, much less fun.

 

[Roger]

Dimension Door would have come in handy. Or Ghostphase armour. Or a Ring of Freedom of Movement. Or Eladrin Feystep.

Which 6th-level Utility power did you have, anyway? Just wondering.



Cheers,
Roger

 

[MarkB]

1) How is this different from prior versions of the game?

Solos take a long time to kill. In 3.xe, either the wizard or the monster would have expired within a couple of rounds.

2) Isn't it a good thing if a creature can actually inspire fear? Isn't that the point of abilities such as this?

Inspiring the fear of "Oh no, this is going to be a tough battle that will require all of our ingenuity and attention!" is a long way from inspiring fear of "Oh no, one of us is about to have nothing useful to do for an hour or more!" One's a thrill, the other is a dread.

 

[charlesatan]

As a GM who's used Purple Worms in 4E, I never really got to use that particular ability because it's actually very difficult to meet the conditions to use it:

1) PC must be grabbed at the start of the Purple Worm's turn
2) PC must be bloodied
3) Attack roll vs. Fortitude

And believe me, I've tried... it's come to the point that actually using its Swallow Whole ability is my reward. (The Purple Worm is honestly one of the most boring Solos to run. It's "too simple" for my tastes.)

 

[DracoSuave]

So you, the controller were grabbed, and got down to bloodied, no one healed you, you didn't escape the grasp, no one tried to shift or slide you, and no one thought 'hey, the wizard's in the mouth of a giant worm, maybe we should do something', because no one marked the guy, no one kept him from you?


Sorry. No sympathy here. The worm took advantage of obvious player mistakes, mistakes that take multiple rounds to happen before they can apply. at least you weren't dead'd for it.

 

[jaelis]

So are you (th OP) saying it would have been better to have simply died?

 

[Jhaelen]

My warning is about Swallow Whole. It can (and has at least once) caused a player (me) to have the most boring game experience of his life. I was bitten, swallowed, and then sat there for two hours trying to roll a 20 so I could punch for 1d4 damage with my 12th level wizard.

It wasn't the GM's fault. He just grabbed an appropriately leveled solo monster (a purple worm he de-leveled). And it wouldn't have been quite so bad if we'd known about the errata, since I could have at least managed to throw around some magic missiles.

Ouch!

I certainly feel with you on this one. I once had something similar happening in 3E in the final boss fight against a mindflayer and his minions. The first round mind blast hit the Barbarian player while everyone else saved. They didn't have anything to remove the condition, so the player had to sit it out for the 2+ hours it took.

That's obviously why they released errata for the purple worm. As written the monster is seriously unfun.

I'm a bit surprised at the majority of responses so far. I have a hard time understanding how anyone could think everything about your encounter was either just fine or well-deserved.

It's also one of the few times I've seen so far where saying "but it wasn't any better in 3E" is a really weak defense for plain bad game mechanics. I'm a big fan of the 4E rules, but that doesn't keep me from being critical about bad rules.

 

[invokethehojo]

I think if I were your DM, at least after a few boring rounds, I would have said the purple worm ate a few kobolds earlier and made a little mini battle inside its stomach so you could have something to do.

Or hell, even an impromptu skill challenge would have been cool, if you could find an organ or weak spot and do something to it it would cough you up or similar.

That stuff is hard to think of on the fly though.