• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

big fight can someone help me out?

hippos purros

First Post
ok, so me and my brother made a bet, it was which one of us would have the stronger level thirty character, at first i thought he was going barbarian which i had no problem beating, but know hes make a dragon riding paladin..... and the character i had cant stand up to a dragon so can anyone suggest a character build to beat him? all core 3.5 and forgotten realms books are allowed (along with infiltrator from kingdoms of kalamar)

thanks.
 

log in or register to remove this ad


hippos purros

First Post
hahaha yeeeaa me and my brother got s good laugh out of that one, but im not trying to break the game just trying to find some way to not get swallowed whole
 

Dausuul

Legend
ok, so me and my brother made a bet, it was which one of us would have the stronger level thirty character, at first i thought he was going barbarian which i had no problem beating, but know hes make a dragon riding paladin..... and the character i had cant stand up to a dragon so can anyone suggest a character build to beat him? all core 3.5 and forgotten realms books are allowed (along with infiltrator from kingdoms of kalamar)

thanks.

30th level? Make a 30th-level spellcaster and turn the paladin and his silly dragon into little flecks of dust drifting on the wind. I assume you're using the Epic-Level Handbook?

I don't think the core books provide a way for a sorceror to get Quicken Spell, so you're probably best off with a wizard. A necromancer, perhaps? Put a base 18 into Int, be a grey elf, get a +5 tome of clear thought and +12 headband of epic intellect (you should have more than enough wealth by level for this), and dump all your stat increases into Int for a total of Int 44.

For your seven epic-level feats, put one into Improved Heighten Spell, one into Improved Metamagic, and five into Epic Spell Capacity. Your normal feats should include Quicken Spell, Maximize Spell, Empower Spell, Heighten Spell, Spell Focus (Necromancy), and Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy). I'm sure you see where this is going.

The dragon is presumably no bigger than Adult gold. (Remember, you can't have a cohort at your level or above, no matter what your Leadership score is; and Young or older golds have at least a +6 level adjustment. Add to the dragon's 23 Hit Dice and you get 29, the maximum.) This is important for a couple reasons. First, such a dragon is not powerful enough to cast anti-magic shell, which could really mess up your day. Second, it has spell resistance 23, which is strictly nothing as far as you're concerned, and a +18 Fortitude save.

So, Quickened Mordenkainen's disjunction (12th-level slot) strips away all buffs and wards from the paladin and dragon. Careful not to catch yourself in the area of effect! Follow that up in the same round with wail of the banshee, Heightened to level 14*. The save DC on this is:

10 (base) +14 (spell level) +17 (Intelligence) +2 (Greater Spell Focus) = 43.

Even if it's using the elite array and put the 15 in Con, the dragon needs a natural 20 to survive. Good luck with that. If he's got a good Charisma and Constitution, the paladin has a fair chance to make it, but a fair number of his items and all his buffing spells are gone. Next round you can throw a Quickened forcecage around him and start playing "catch the Maximized Empowered energy drain."

Ah, but wait, you say. What if the paladin and his dragon win initiative? Not a problem. That's what contingency is for. As soon as the paladin and/or his dragon are within line of sight (you do wear a gem of true seeing in front of your face at all times when outside your fortress, right?), contingency teleports you away to an undisclosed location. Once there, time stop, greater teleport back, and assess the situation. Cast a few delayed-action spells for extra fun, delay your initiative as necessary to ensure you have the lead when time stop wears off, and unload.

(For that matter, why are you even outside your fortress to begin with? You should be hanging out in your Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion and cavorting with summoned succubi, except when you set out to scry'n'die some poor sod. Like, say, a dragon-riding paladin.)

And that's just for starters. I'm being very conservative with the rules--no dubious interpretations or stretching of RAW, just using the spells exactly as intended--and I'm not nearly as experienced as some of the folks around here at abusing the Epic-Level Handbook. I hear you can do some really horrific stuff with epic spells...

[size=-2]*Arguably, Improved Metamagic should let you heighten it to 15, but like I said, I'm being conservative here.[/size]
 
Last edited:

hippos purros

First Post
wow, intense, ive never been a good spellslinger, im more the rogue/fighter type. i showed this to my brother and he gave up. and the fights a beginning to an epic campaign, theres ganna be a few more peopl but i shouldnt have any trouble with them if i can take down the dragon rider. thanks for makin my brother realize that the internet is not a fair resource for character creating^^
 

A level 30 paladin? Seriously, a Bard should eliminate one without trouble. Or more accurately first be able to chose the time of battle - and then all you need is one full round and to reliably be able to hit DC50+10 on a diplomacy check (not hard with 33 ranks, a bonus of 6 from synergies, and a charisma in the 30s before you've taken any feats, items, or spells into account - you only need a 10 already so Epic Skill Focus will cover matters). At that point it takes you one standard action to turn the barbarian from hostile to helpful - or if the paladin's an actual PC you simply do the same to the dragon, who will therefore try to keep both sides alive and is therefore effectively neutralised. No magical defences or saving throws allowed - and you even win in the middle of an anti-magic field.

And nothing indicated there can't be done by a Commoner.
 

nedjer

Adventurer
You guys seem to have got lost in the store. It was the aisle labelled Win Mentality with lots of copies of COD7 and Streetfighter 17 you were after :)
 

Dausuul

Legend
wow, intense, ive never been a good spellslinger, im more the rogue/fighter type. i showed this to my brother and he gave up. and the fights a beginning to an epic campaign, theres ganna be a few more peopl but i shouldnt have any trouble with them if i can take down the dragon rider. thanks for makin my brother realize that the internet is not a fair resource for character creating^^

That, plus epic-level spellcasters are not fair, period. 3E spellcasters become grossly overpowered starting around 10th-12th level. By the time you hit epic, even a moderately optimized caster can blow through any opposition except another caster. (Caster versus caster boils down to "Which of us has a trick up his/her sleeve the other one didn't prepare for, and who pulls it out first?")

It's actually worse in core-only, because all the brokenly powerful caster stuff is in the Player's Handbook, while non-casters don't have access to the fancy prestige classes and cheesy feats that might help compensate.

After sleeping on it, I had some more ideas to reduce the risk and improve the reliability of the above build (Improved Metamagic can be taken multiple times and Quickened time stop is an evil, evil toy), but clearly they are not necessary. I'll simply refer you to this thread, then go do penance for the pain I've just visited on your DM. :)
 
Last edited:

javgoro

First Post
Demi-lich. Enough said. :cool:.

Being serious, casters vs. anything else is pretty much the way to go. A simple forcecage is enough to send most meleers that didn't prepare specifically for it packing. Sneak attack? No worries, a simple prescience will take care of it. Heavy meleer? Shapeshift into dragon, and then we'll be on even terms, plus I will still have my spellcasting. Otto's irresistible dance for the broken win... And so on.
 

Voidrunner's Codex

Remove ads

Top