Binding and Ally as rituals?

[MechaTarrasque]

Given that you have to pay the ally, I think planar ally would fit the warlock. I can't see any patrons going for planar binding though, especially in conjunction with planar ally. They might have a cut of the ally's pay, so why should they give the warlock a spell that lets them force the ally to work for free?

 

[Darkwing Duck]

The way I've always imagined Warlocks is like John Doe got ahold of his dead uncle's book on Conjuration (his dead uncle was a Wizard). He believes that he's smart enough to manage these spells even though he has no magical training and he manages to open a small window into another plane. Kifu the devourer greets him and wants to eat his soul like Twinkies. In desperation, he makes a pact.
Now, there is no reason that he must attempt to bind or summon one of Kifu's minions when he uses Planar Binding or Planar Ally. In fact, Kifu may give him those spells and the names of some of the minions of Ufik, Kifu's rival.
I can easily see the Warlock as being the class which messes around the most with summoning rituals. They could end up with a long list of entities they are in debt to and other entities who are in debt to the Warlock.

 

[Augoeides]

I envision warlocks as being members of a cult. The big trick is getting the attention of the Devil (_Devil_, not demon, because demons are too inherently chaotic) in the first place. The cult does that for the warlock. So, Planar Ally has always been an intrinsic part of being a warlock. The warlock better be careful to use Planar Ally _only_ when it directly affects the welfare of the Devil. If he can't convince the Devil each time he casts the spell, then the Devil may get vengeful against the warlock for wasting his time. As a GM, I'd be very, very critical of any and all uses of this spell, except for initiating a new warlock. The player would be well advised to make sure that he has the strongest possible argument for taking up the Devil's time.

The Devil may teach the warlock the secrets of summoning and binding _demons_. This is where Planar Binding comes into play. The power of the Planar Binding spell helps to mitigate the risk of summoning an inherently _chaotic_ creature whom the PC knows will twist the agreed upon action (i.e. what the warlock tells the demon to do) as much as it can.

 

[Chaosmancer]

One of my favorite flavors of warlock is the unwilling pact. Accidentally release a dark power, power gives you a choice, become delicious crunchy food, along with your family, friends, neighbors and that guy down the street, or you can take on a task for them, to help them restore their power.

Perhaps the task is impossible and the goal is giving them enough power to hang themselves with and gain a loyal servant, or perhaps it is literally gather my lost weapons.

Then it becomes an interesting question, does the magic power belong to the being, or did the being use some of it's power to "open the gate" to the warlock gaining his own power.

Anyways, I thought those spells were already on the list, but I could see some restricted versions of them... actually, no, no restrictions. Let the fiendlock summon and angel and lets see how smooth a talker he is. Could be a great moment where they either convince the angel of their good intentions and gets help, or maybe, just maybe, they could arrange the fall of an angel to appease their master.

After all, planar ally the being doesn't have to follow your orders right? You've got to convince it.

 

[Augoeides]

Chaosmancer> If I may, how do you ensure that the PC continues working on the entities behalf? If the PC is unwilling, why not just agree with the entity when it threatens to eat everyone on the PC's friends and family plan? Then, when the entity leaves, the PC can renege? How far can the GM turn the screws on the PC?

 

[Chaosmancer]

Chaosmancer> If I may, how do you ensure that the PC continues working on the entities behalf? If the PC is unwilling, why not just agree with the entity when it threatens to eat everyone on the PC's friends and family plan? Then, when the entity leaves, the PC can renege? How far can the GM turn the screws on the PC?

These have all been PC's I've made and never gotten a chance to play, if I'm being up front. For example, here is the background for Natalie Dumein Fiendish Bladelock, Human Noble

[sblock] Natali was not born into the nobility, her family was poor and struggled through life working the lands around the Dumein estate. However, they believed their fortunes greatly changed when their daughter caught the eye of the young lord of the eccentric family. Taken to the manor and trained in the arts of nobility, including proper dancing, swordplay and manners, Natali eagerly awaited her wedding and the prosperity she could bring to her family. Immediately after the ceremony though, the family revealed its true intent. Long ago their ancestors had captured a dark being of great power, sealing it within a dark and twisted tree on the estate. It would give them prosperity as long as they sacrificed a noblewoman to it every decade, but if the blood of the family was ever offered its service was over. She was not truly of the blood, but her marriage made her a noble and she would appease the beasts hunger. Natali fought back, grabbing her husband’s blade and running him through. As the blood soaked into the tree everything went black. When Natali awoke she saw a great oozing shape tearing the Dumein family apart, but when it turned to her it instead offered a deal. When the family had it imprisoned it, they had stolen its many golden eyes and sold them across the world. If she wished to live, and not see it rampage through the village to kill the peasants, she would serve it and find it’s 1,000 eyes. She agreed, the rapier in her hand turned an inky black and her hand burned with the pact seal. Her master settled into the manor, keeping up the pretense that the Dumein still ruled and Natali set forth desperate to find someway to escape her new fate, but also gathering the eyes as promised, lest the beast wreck vengeance upon her home and it’s people.

At the time the adventure starts, Natali will have found 5 of the eyes, and her quest would have been going on for 4.5 years. Two of the eyes have been returned to the demon, while the remaining three are on her person. The eyes are orbs of pure gold, about the size of a baseball, with a streak of onyx buried within to act as the pupil.
[/sblock]

The end goal is clearly to find a way out of the pact, another character I've thought of draws inspiration from Nami from the Anime One Piece, a demon has taken over their hometown, and made a game out of this. The PC was given power, a corrupting power that may overwhelm them, and can buy the lives of the townspeople, for 10,000 gold each or something like that.

The idea of being on an impossible quest.

But yeah, they could theoretically renege on the deal, leave and never return, and depending on the pact and story, the consequences can range from nothing to running from this thing that is tearing about the countryside looking for you. It depends on how the player wants the story to begin and then what makes sense to continue, while giving the player free will without their patron being present for every use of their power.

Plus, if all your power comes from this one source, how do you level up without returning to the source, and how can you pull the Ghost Rider and Spawn storylines and turn against your creator? Powerful and clever beings with servants can do all sorts of things if I need them to, but I like it being in the hands of the player.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I agree with Choasmancer that the spell should take advantage of the warlock's good charisma score (persuasion check to work cheap), although I limit the critters to things the patron is reasonably expected to have on hand (you might get a chained angel from Tome of Beasts from a fiend patron, but not a planetar). Planar ally is a great way to ensure the warlock is working on the patron's behalf, because if he/she isn't then all they get is a lemure or mane, and if they are doing "good" for the patron, they might get an ice devil or marilith--this gives the player the chance to be creative to figure out how to look like their PC is working for their patron while secretly rebelling.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I don't see Warlocks as servants of dark powers. Clerics are the servants. Warlocks are the guys who make agreements with dark powers--quid pro quo, and you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours, with both sides looking to get one up on the other. So yeah, in that sense, I think Planar Binding and Planar Ally both make sense for the warlock.

Having them as at will rituals is a bit much. Perhaps as once per day invocations.

This. My warlocks would mostly stab ya in the face with a blade made of your own bad luck for calling them a servant of anything.

For my group, Warlocks are pact makers and binders, not sevants bound to a master. They may be playing with Fire, but to survive, they make deals with ancient powers as if equals, and hope like hell (pun intended) that there isn't some fine print they didn't understand.

Calling it a patron bugs me too, just doesn't fit the Faustian bargain. It's not a patron, it's a Fell entity you made a bargain with. Maybe being tempted like Faust, maybe summoning it by its true name with circle and incantation, maybe by having done a favor for an ancient and powerful being, and made a deal as your reward, maybe offering a doorway into our world in exchange for a window into It's multiversal cosmic nature, maybe something too foul to describe, maybe even a foolish bargain made in haste that keeps getting worse, and keeps resulting in you getting deeper indebted, as you desperately try to find a way out.

To me, the characters I make as a warlock wouldn't be warlocks if they were willing to have a master. They'd rather die than be some otherworldly being's pet.

Regardless, though, binding and summoning rituals fit either interpretation, since warlocks definitely work with pact/binding magic, and chain warlocks already bind lesser beings to their will.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I agree with Choasmancer that the spell should take advantage of the warlock's good charisma score (persuasion check to work cheap), although I limit the critters to things the patron is reasonably expected to have on hand (you might get a chained angel from Tome of Beasts from a fiend patron, but not a planetar). Planar ally is a great way to ensure the warlock is working on the patron's behalf, because if he/she isn't then all they get is a lemure or mane, and if they are doing "good" for the patron, they might get an ice devil or marilith--this gives the player the chance to be creative to figure out how to look like their PC is working for their patron while secretly rebelling.

This seems strange to me, even with the warlock-as-servant interpretation. Why would the summoning spell work differently?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The way I've always imagined Warlocks is like John Doe got ahold of his dead uncle's book on Conjuration (his dead uncle was a Wizard). He believes that he's smart enough to manage these spells even though he has no magical training and he manages to open a small window into another plane. Kifu the devourer greets him and wants to eat his soul like Twinkies. In desperation, he makes a pact.
Now, there is no reason that he must attempt to bind or summon one of Kifu's minions when he uses Planar Binding or Planar Ally. In fact, Kifu may give him those spells and the names of some of the minions of Ufik, Kifu's rival.
I can easily see the Warlock as being the class which messes around the most with summoning rituals. They could end up with a long list of entities they are in debt to and other entities who are in debt to the Warlock.

I like this. My locks don't tend to be the found a book and opened the wrong door type, but more the *stole* a book that contained a true name, devised a ritual, planned for months, and bound a powerful being for just long enough to make a dangerous bargain. Either way, definitely agree that warlocks should have plenty of summoning options.