Black Panther: Wakanda forever spoilers

[FitzTheRuke]

That's not Ross' call to make, he even notes himself that the info he gives them is worthy of someone killing him. While he tries to laugh it off....yeah its that serious.

I gotta agree here. He completely burnt his loyalty to his own country because they "saved his life". If they deserved that much of his respect, they wouldn't ask so much of him. He's pretty much a wanted traitor now, and must live under the protection of Wakanda. Which is a shame for someone who presumably had a long and successful career in US Intelligence to have been in the position he was.

The complaints here outline the movie's faults, I agree. It was still really good, though!

Namor was great. I've known the character well for a long time, and I think the additions/changes to his backstory make him a richer character than he ever was (ditto for his fellow "atlanteans").

 

[phuong]

I thought the first teaser for Wakanda Forever was the best preview ever made, I was teary watching it.
What they delivered was something that made me feel a little cheated story wise compared to my extremely high expectations.

The teaser had the Wakanda's surrendering to a military, general Ayo overwhelmed back by a force, their city burning, under water.
In the first few minutes come to find the surrendering to a military was not a thing, they were pretending to surrender to the French. That ruined part of my expectation, especially coupled with "whispers of our protector is dead" was addressed to the UN not to the antagonist.

Nayo was a decent villain, but uneven, one minute inviting a Nakia to his city and making jokes, then saying he is going to destroy the world, then later surrendering.

MIT student going from confused genius kid to captured by evil god to fighting a super power with a new iron man suit all in her relatively short screen time was a character arc just too fast for me.

Solo side adventure by the sister to rescue the princess, while murdering a guard, was a bit much.

I felt a little cheated that our new Black Panther princess went on an arc, influenced by Killmonger, where she was going to become morally grey, but then they back off, just kidding, everyone in Disney is good, she forgives him for killing her mother.

Having said all that, I enjoyed it throughout, it was a send off to Chadwick and an underwhelming Marvel movie is 10 times better than anything DC will ever produce. I still laugh at The Rock saying that Black Adam was a morally dark character, while they just show him "dropping some baddies from a height", funny stuff.

7.5/10, enjoyable mix of Aquaman and Avatar.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

Hate to say it but I did not love it. It was a bare pass as a movie.

I think Shuri's character arc is poorly defined and therefore poorly resolved. Very unsatisfactory.

Re. Riri. As much as I want to see an Iron Heart movie or series this was not the place to bring her in. Her character did nothing. The plot line around her character did nothing except to add about 30 minutes to an already long movie.

The main plot was just... bad. Seriously, Namor, who tries to make friends by threatening the people you are trying to be friends with? WTF? I could say a lot more about the flaws in the plot and probably will another time.

I think all of the actors did great in their roles. There are many fine scenes. But the scenes did not hang together as story. I put this down to poor plotting and poor character development.

So yeah, overall, not a good movie.

What I did like:

I think the cast were very good. Pretty much any individual scene from the movie could be watched and enjoyed.

Looked great. I loved Talokan.

I'll give it a 5/10. Which still makes it better than Aquaman.

 

[Davies]

What I found most interesting -- and suggestive that Shuri's arc isn't quite done yet -- is her reaction to learning that Toussaint knows his Wakandan name. I don't think she's happy that this kid has already had his whole life planned out for him like that, and I wonder what she's going to do ...

 

[AnotherGuy]

I'll give it a 5/10. Which still makes it better than Aquaman.

If Aquaman is the bar it ain't worth spending one's money or time on.

 

[Tonguez]

.

• Wakanda has a major major security problem. Realistically, Wakanda's capital was defeated by a small group of people, sure they had some superpowers, but it was a SMALL group. Any major armed forces from a modern country would trounce Wakanda is that's the kind of military showing they have to bare. They act like Namor had some super secret technique that let him breach Wakandan security, all he did was come through the water. There are plenty of stealth team operations that could have conducted similar approaches. Wakanda has an impenetrable shield but a siege of the city to blockade it....Wakanda doesn't seem to have an answer for. Aka Wakanda is presented as this nigh invincible civilization to the rest of the world but in reality, its still a small country with a small military force, as advanced as they are there is no way they would withstand a major military invasion from a modern country.
  • Perhaps....that's the point, and perhaps I'm looking at this wrong. After all, in Namor's closing statement he mentions who the world will turn on Wakanda, and they will return to Namor. This may be foreshadowing, as cocky as Wakanda is they are simply no match for a "real" war, and if that actually becomes a thing, Namor comes back in the picture.

I think that is the point - up until now Wakanda has relied on its Traditions and Vibranium technology to stay hidden and protected from enemies, but now the world has caught up with them- first Klaue and Kilmonger, now France,US and Talokan; reliance on tradition and vibranium isnt enough to keep Wakanda protected - a new strategy is required and may well be what Armor Wars and the New Captain America will explore

 

[DrunkonDuty]

If Aquaman is the bar it ain't worth spending one's money or time on.

I used Aquaman as a bench mark because "under water kingdoms" rather than because it's as bad as Aquaman. That being said, unless your a big Wakanda fan, I'd wait until it's out on Disney+. Assuming you have access to Disney+.


For the record, I give Aquaman a 3/10 and that's only because I like Jason Momoa.

 

[Tonguez]

.

• While its cool that MBaku gets to be King now, the messaging is a bit rough. There was this premise throughout the movie of Shuri finding a balance between her technical mind and the traditions of her people, and she started to get there. But then at the end she "scoffs" tradition by not even showing up to the ceremony, which feels a little off. I don't mind Shuri showing up and then letting MBaku win the challenge, that I could respect....but her not showing up just feels a bit hallow to one of the messages of the movie.

in Wakanda the ceremonial role of Black Panther and the Kingship are distinct, so while they have usually been held by the same person they dont have to be. Shuri is Black Panther by the blessing of Bast but she is not compelled by tradition to turn up and claim the kingship. Im sure the Wakandans officiating understand that.
Equally Mbaku as follower of Hanuman really cant claim the mantle of Black Panther either

 

[DeviousQuail]

I think @Stalker0 pretty much nailed my feelings on this movie. My additions:

Biggest surprise: Letitia Wright was able to be the lead. Not that she couldn't be the lead in a movie, just this movie in particular. But I think she did an excellent job especially with a story that had some issues. She's got the title of Black Panther now and it feels right. Honorable mention to the orca launching a guy with his tail onto the Wakanda ship.

Biggest letdown: the new suits, with the exception of Shuri's, are not good. If the characters in the movie are dragging them then don't be surprised if the audience does too. Honorable mention to the unnecessary amount of slow-mo.

Biggest ?: Why is Ri Ri Williams in this at all? She has some of the best lines in the movie but you could take her out and it would be fine. Have Namor stop the under water mining of vibranium, he goes to Wakanda and asks for aid, they decline, he goes to the US and abducts some generic scientists who made the vibranium finder tech and makes it look like Wakanda did it, Ross lets the Wakandans know they are being blamed, the Wakandans try to clear their name by getting the scientists back, Shuri gets taken in the process and Namor shows her Talokan, this time he gives the ultimatum of join him or Wakanda falls first, Shuri declines, 3rd act ensues. Honorable mention to Shuri ditching the new leader ceremony without telling anyone. Mbaku showed real leadership in this movie and deserved better than 'Actually, she's not here so I'm in charge now'.

 

[Cadence]

I gotta agree here. He completely burnt his loyalty to his own country because they "saved his life". If they deserved that much of his respect, they wouldn't ask so much of him. He's pretty much a wanted traitor now, and must live under the protection of Wakanda. Which is a shame for someone who presumably had a long and successful career in US Intelligence to have been in the position he was.

I wonder if part of why he burnt his loyalty to his country is because of what he thought the US would do if they had the vibranium (or what they would do to get it).