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Bolas from S&F
- Thread starter Lord Ben
- Start date
Wolf72
Explorer
Reflex
... I thought the target got a reflex save (DC=attack roll) to avoid entanglement (at least that's what it was in Dragon Mag)
Deals subdual dmg. The thrower makes a ranged touch attack. The target may make a Reflex Save to avoid entanglement (DC=attack roll), if failed the target is pinned until escape artist check or str check both are DC 20. Being cut loose requires 5 points of slashing dmg.
barbed bola: Deals NORMAL dmg. Failed attempts to escape or break free deals an additional 1d4.
note: these are from the Dragon Magazine issue that was all about fighters (same issue with the elven thinblade, great scimitar, and dwarven buckler axe, gnomish tortoise blade, and halfling skiprock)
... I thought the target got a reflex save (DC=attack roll) to avoid entanglement (at least that's what it was in Dragon Mag)
Deals subdual dmg. The thrower makes a ranged touch attack. The target may make a Reflex Save to avoid entanglement (DC=attack roll), if failed the target is pinned until escape artist check or str check both are DC 20. Being cut loose requires 5 points of slashing dmg.
barbed bola: Deals NORMAL dmg. Failed attempts to escape or break free deals an additional 1d4.
note: these are from the Dragon Magazine issue that was all about fighters (same issue with the elven thinblade, great scimitar, and dwarven buckler axe, gnomish tortoise blade, and halfling skiprock)
Bolas usually have 2 or three balls on strings coming from a centerpoint. Now, get your party mage to enchant each of the balls with one of the following:
flaming +1
Thundering +1
frost +1
and I don't give a whit whether or not the darn thing trips my opponent. on a successful hit my enemy is taking at least one type of real damage.
flaming +1
Thundering +1
frost +1
and I don't give a whit whether or not the darn thing trips my opponent. on a successful hit my enemy is taking at least one type of real damage.
Lord Ben said:
Yep, they work great!
They seem powerful, but you give up stuff in order to trip or grapple. First off, if you DO trip, the rest of your attacks are at -4 for him being prone. 2nd, how many magical bolas are out there? A Returning Bola wouldn't take advantage of the grappling. How many bolas are you carrying? How much damage could you be dealing through other means, instead of tripping? It takes a feat to use well, even with a high dex. An archer could be amassing some serious damage instead of tripping.My rogue started using one recently and it saved a party member. However, we forgot to add in the -4 penalty because I don't have precise shot (or point blank shot for that matter), so I probably should've missed a few times. Basically, I was tripping the bad guy every round and preventing him from full attacking/killing one of our melee guys.
Also, tripping won't work vs. flying critters. The guy from the last example got tired of me and did just that, flying away from us and blasting fireballs from the sky.
They worked great against mounted creatures too. It was fun tripping darrows riding nightmares. However, skilled riders with the right feat could avoid this easily.
Overall, I think it's a cool weapon, and powerful, but not too powerful. Don't forget that it can work against the party too!
There are defenses against it. For example, you'd think the 1 round of grappling good against wizards, but with Shield, they get +7 to their touch AC. Among other spells. Clerics have spells to buff too.
It can be annoying, but being tripped is preferable to taking 40-50 damage from an archer in one round.
I could be completely wrong, but my DM hasn't complained yet.
Tome said:Bolas usually have 2 or three balls on strings coming from a centerpoint. Now, get your party mage to enchant each of the balls with one of the following:
flaming +1
Thundering +1
frost +1
and I don't give a whit whether or not the darn thing trips my opponent. on a successful hit my enemy is taking at least one type of real damage.
It has 2 (it's called the two-ball bola!), and I think you can only officially enchant an item with separate enhancements like above if it is a double weapon, like a quarterstaff. So, barring a house rule, this won't work.
I've been planning on giving them a balance DC = to the attack roll to not trip. So if they make both then they're neither entangled nor tripped. But I haven't used them yet.
I was planning on using it for NPC's. Goblin throws Bola at fighter, other goblins rush him and take +4 to hit!
I was planning on using it for NPC's. Goblin throws Bola at fighter, other goblins rush him and take +4 to hit!
Pielorinho
Iron Fist of Pelor
My main problem with bolas is that they don't follow normal rules. Normally, any funky attack gives the defender a chance to make an opposed roll -- as does normal trips, normal disarms, normal grapples, and so on. Better opponents are harder to attack funkily.
In the bola's case, however, it's usually only the defender's dex that matters. A 20th-level paladin is easier to trip, on average, than a 1st-level rogue.
And that just ain't right.
I think I'd be happier with it as a weapon if it worked like this:
-Trip attack: the bola's user can attempt to trip an opponent by making a ranged touch attack. If the attack hits, the attacker makes a DEX check, opposed by a str check from the defender. The defender may choose to make a Dex check instead. If the attacker wins this check, the defender is tripped. A trip attempt with the bola deals no damage, whether or not it's successful.
-Entangle attack: the bola's user can attempt to entangle an opponent. In order to do so, the user must hit the opponent with a ranged touch attack. If the attack hits, the attacker makes a DEX check, opposed by a str check from the defender. The defender may choose to make a Dex check instead. If the attacker wins this check, the defender is entangled. An entangle attempt with the bola deals no damage, whether or not it's successful.
This makes it slightly less useful than a tanglefoot bag, which is as it should be. It allows either the defender's legs or arms to be entangled -- not both. And it gives the defender a sporting chance to avoid trouble, in a manner similar to that granted by normal trip attacks.
Daniel
In the bola's case, however, it's usually only the defender's dex that matters. A 20th-level paladin is easier to trip, on average, than a 1st-level rogue.
And that just ain't right.
I think I'd be happier with it as a weapon if it worked like this:
-Trip attack: the bola's user can attempt to trip an opponent by making a ranged touch attack. If the attack hits, the attacker makes a DEX check, opposed by a str check from the defender. The defender may choose to make a Dex check instead. If the attacker wins this check, the defender is tripped. A trip attempt with the bola deals no damage, whether or not it's successful.
-Entangle attack: the bola's user can attempt to entangle an opponent. In order to do so, the user must hit the opponent with a ranged touch attack. If the attack hits, the attacker makes a DEX check, opposed by a str check from the defender. The defender may choose to make a Dex check instead. If the attacker wins this check, the defender is entangled. An entangle attempt with the bola deals no damage, whether or not it's successful.
This makes it slightly less useful than a tanglefoot bag, which is as it should be. It allows either the defender's legs or arms to be entangled -- not both. And it gives the defender a sporting chance to avoid trouble, in a manner similar to that granted by normal trip attacks.
Daniel
Lord Ben said:
No, the grapple (not entangle, I think they are different) check works like this. The defender (medium sized or smaller only) makes a grapple check with the DC equal to the attack roll from the bola. If grappled successfully, the foe can escape by simply taking a full round action to take the bola off. Or, I suppose they could try to cut it off if they have a slashing weapon handy. I would give an attack penalty of at least -4 for this since you are attacking something that is attached to you. Not only that, but damage should be decreased as well. You simply can't do as much damage with a weapon using it like this, as opposed to swinging it. Probably halve the damage dealt would be realistic. HOUSE RULE!
Is it just me, or does this sound a lot more powerful than the Net?
A Net it also a ranged exotic weapon, but has a max range of only 10ft. No damage, but the defender is automatically entangled on a successful ranged touch attack. (As opposed to automatically tripped, and a Dex check to prevent entanglement for the Bolas.)
Granted, Entangled is nastier than Tripped, but the larger range, possibility for entanglement, and subdual damage *more* than make up for it...
A Net it also a ranged exotic weapon, but has a max range of only 10ft. No damage, but the defender is automatically entangled on a successful ranged touch attack. (As opposed to automatically tripped, and a Dex check to prevent entanglement for the Bolas.)
Granted, Entangled is nastier than Tripped, but the larger range, possibility for entanglement, and subdual damage *more* than make up for it...
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