D&D 5E Bonus melee attack with main hand?

[Mooseontheloose]

Can you make a bonus melee attack with a weapon in your main hand (ie. an attack without adding Ability Bonus to Damage)?

Let's say a Cleric use his Action to cast Bless and then wants to make an attack with his bonus action, but he is only carrying a weapon in his main hand. Would that be possible?
I realise it's called off-hand attack, not bonus attack, but it seems strange to me if you can't attack if you hold your hammer in one hand, but if you switch hands, then you can actually attack.

 

[MostlyDm]

Technically, wherever the mace was, he could not use his bonus action to attack; two-weapon fighting says that when you use your action to attack, you can then make an off-hand attack as a bonus action.

So that sort of invalidates your question, from a rules perspective... it's just not an issue.

Personally, I have no problem changing the two-weapon fighting off-hand attack to be something like "Quick Attack: As a bonus action on your turn, you may make an attack with a weapon you have not attacked with this turn. Do not apply any ability modifier to the damage roll."

Or something to that effect. You could clean up the language to explicitly prevent cheesy exploits, I can already spot at least one technicality in the way I phrased it. But you get the idea.

We're solidly in the realm of house rules, though.

I like it, but it's a pretty powerful buff to spell-casting hybrids, Dodging tanks and rogues, etc. Use at your own risk.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

Isn't making a weapon attack and a spell one of the Eldrtitch Knight's features?

 

[Blue]

While you get up to one bonus action a round, by default there are no bonus actions. You get them though various methods that grant them. The Attack action would allow an off-hand attack as a bonus action, but you don't get that because you are casting Bless, not taking an Attack action. [MENTION=6788973]MostlyDm[/MENTION] covered that.

Two weapon fighting requires that both weapons (the one used in the Attack action and the one in the off-hand) be light, so that's another requirement. Not sure if the hammer you are describing is light or not.

Finally, if you had a light weapon and took the attack action, it is required to be in the off hand - the opportunity cost of the extra attack in not being able to hold a shield or other thing in the off hand.

So no, you wouldn't be able to cast Bless and then get a bonus action attack with your only weapon unless there was something else that let you do so. For example, the Fighter (Eldritch Knight) gets the ability at 7th level to make a weapon attack as a bonus action after you use your round to cast a cantrip.

 

[MostlyDm]

Isn't making a weapon attack and a spell one of the Eldrtitch Knight's features?

Absolutely. Like I said, it's an overpowered house rule for a few reasons.

At my table, I actually do allow a sort of low-key variant of it: TWFers can use their Action for a variety of things and still make an "off hand" attack with either weapon as a bonus action. Most significant/commonly used function is to Dodge and then throw out a single attack, which I quite like. From a quasi-realistic view TWF is really more about having a strong defense, rather than "I can hit twice as fast."

 

[Kalshane]

Absolutely. Like I said, it's an overpowered house rule for a few reasons.

At my table, I actually do allow a sort of low-key variant of it: TWFers can use their Action for a variety of things and still make an "off hand" attack with either weapon as a bonus action. Most significant/commonly used function is to Dodge and then throw out a single attack, which I quite like. From a quasi-realistic view TWF is really more about having a strong defense, rather than "I can hit twice as fast."

Do you allow it for anyone using two weapons, or just for people with the fighting style or for those with the Dual-Wielder Feat?

Actually, that might add a little punch to the somewhat under-powered Dual-Wielder Feat. I'll have to give it some thought. Maybe limit it to "When you use the attack action while wielding a weapon in each hand, you can use your Bonus Action to Dodge instead of making an attack with your off-hand weapon."

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Do you allow it for anyone using two weapons, or just for people with the fighting style or for those with the Dual-Wielder Feat?

Actually, that might add a little punch to the somewhat under-powered Dual-Wielder Feat. I'll have to give it some thought. Maybe limit it to "When you use the attack action while wielding a weapon in each hand, you can use your Bonus Action to Dodge instead of making an attack with your off-hand weapon."

From what MostlyDM has described, it sounds like it goes the other way around: "When you take the Dodge action while dual-wielding, you may make an off-hand attack per usual TWF rules even though you did not Attack". It's good for Rogues because Rogues get most of their damage via Sneak Attack.

 

[MostlyDm]

Hemlock has it right, I let a single attack follow a dodge (also other one-off actions sometimes, situationally).

I don't currently have it tied to a feat or fighting style, either, though I would probably reconsider and do something like that if it saw a lot of abuse. I haven't noticed anything that seems egregious so far.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Hemlock has it right, I let a single attack follow a dodge (also other one-off actions sometimes, situationally).

I don't currently have it tied to a feat or fighting style, either, though I would probably reconsider and do something like that if it saw a lot of abuse. I haven't noticed anything that seems egregious so far.

The obvious exploit for a Rogue would be to take Sentinel so you could Dodge and still bonus-attack and also reaction-attack anyone who attacks someone besides you in order to get two sneak attacks per turn while still having terrific defense. And you'll still have the option of using your reaction on Uncanny Dodge if you need to against a big monster.

I don't know if you'd consider that egregious, but it's pretty good in a close-quarters fight.

 

[MostlyDm]

That doesn't strike me as totally outrageous at first blush, just a neat way of making a really tanky rogue. Strong, sure. But I'd have to see it in action I suppose.

Feats at my table are only allowed on a case by case basis, typically as in-game boons rather than chosen in place of ASIs. For example, finding one of the ancient dwarf-forged Black Sentry blades, taking it to the ruined Hall of the Patriarchs, placing it in a sconce before one of the patriarchs, and standing vigil for three days and nights without sleep will grant you a blessing from that patriarch. Comes with your choice of Alertness or Sentinel and a unique ability depending on which patriarch.

I do allow feats to be picked if a player is really excited about one, though, so long as it makes sense to me.

I will admit: a handful of feats I just have no interest in (I think I have spoken at length elsewhere about why I find sharpshooter hard to swallow from a conceptual standpoint, a game design standpoint, and a balance standpoint) and I ask my players not to choose them. If they want the concept of them (e.g. want to take a feat to improve archery) I'll just work with them to invent one. The archery kit in a home brew Warrior fighter subclass here on ENworld is pretty good.

All that said... I don't have a strong objection to Sentinel at all, so I'd certainly allow this combo if someone wanted to see how powerful it was.