Bonuses

[Virindi]

OK let me preface my question with these statements;

I have read in the PHB 275 "Don't add together bonuses of the same type to the same roll or score. If you have two bonuses of the same type that apply to the same score, use the higher bonus."

PHB 275 A feat bonus is granted by a feat. The bonus applies as long as you have the feat." -emphasis added.

My question; Can a fighter with his class proficiencies (simple ranged, military ranged, simple melee, and military melee). Takes the Eladrin Soldier feat, would he gain +3 proficiency in spears for being military melee weapon, and a +3 feat(Eladrin Soldier) proficiency in spears as a +4 proficiency in spears?
I understand it says don't take the highest of the two bonuses(which are equal). Aren't we talking about a feat bonus and a proficiency bonus which could be added together?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Aren't we talking about a feat bonus and a proficency bonus which could be added together?

A feat bonus is granted by a feat, but not all bonuses granted by feats are feat bonuses. Group Insight is a feat that grants a racial bonus. Combat Reflexes is a feat that grants an [untyped] bonus. Dragonborn Senses is a feat that grants a feat bonus.

Apart from that, the Eladrin Soldier feat doesn't grant proficiency with longswords, but rather with spears.

So let's take that as an example instead. Our Eladrin Fighter is proficient with spears, and gains a +2 proficiency bonus to attack rolls with them. He takes the Eladrin Soldier feat.

Does the feat grant a +2 feat bonus to attack rolls with spears? No.
Does the feat grant a +2 proficiency bonus to attack rolls with spears? Strictly, no.
What the feat does is grant proficiency with spears... and proficiency with spears is what gives the +2 proficiency bonus to attack rolls with them.

-Hyp.

 

[Virindi]

I meant spears and wrote long swords. I edited the first post to reflect that. I still am not sure you answered my question either way, or maybe I just didn't understand your response.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I meant spears and wrote long swords. I edited the first post to reflect that. I still am not sure you answered my question either way, or maybe I just didn't understand your response.

Eldarin Soldier grants proficiency in spears (which he already had, so his proficiency bonus to attack rolls remains +2), and a +2 feat bonus to damage rolls, not attack rolls.

So he makes his attack, with a +2 proficiency bonus; and if he hits, he rolls his damage, with a +2 feat bonus.

He doesn't have a feat bonus that adds to his attack rolls.

-Hyp.

 

[Virindi]

Ah I see so they are both typed as proficiency bonuses. I wasn't sure if the the Eladrin soldier feat was considered a feat "proficiency" that would stack.
I get it now he already had +2 spear bonus (being trained in simple melee as a fighter class), so he's not really gaining any extra proficiency to attack, but he will gain feat type bonus(+2) damage when he uses the spear. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

[DracoSuave]

For the names of the types of bonuses, it's always explicit with the bonus.

'proficiency bonus'
'item bonus'
'power bonus'
'feat bonus'

And so on. If it doesn't say _____ bonus, even if it's from a feat, it's an -unnamed- bonus and stacks with everything else.

 

[Ibixat]

To be fair here, the Eladrin Soldier benefit does not actually provide the proficiency Bonus per say. It provides you with proficiency, which is NOT a flat +2 since it depends on the weapon. The greatspear for example is a +3 proficiency weapon, it's also a two handed superior melee weapon that you'd have access to with that feat, and at +2 damage to boot, far outweighing taking weapon proficiency greatspear IF you are an eladrin.

 

[DracoSuave]

To be fair here, the Eladrin Soldier benefit does not actually provide the proficiency Bonus per say. It provides you with proficiency, which is NOT a flat +2 since it depends on the weapon. The greatspear for example is a +3 proficiency weapon, it's also a two handed superior melee weapon that you'd have access to with that feat, and at +2 damage to boot, far outweighing taking weapon proficiency greatspear IF you are an eladrin.

Even if it did, you'd have Proficiency bonus from WP, and Proficiency bonus from the feat, and those wouldn't stack.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Well, I'm still on the fence as to whether eladrin soldier grants proficiency with the Greatspear (from adventurer's vault).

 

[Ibixat]

Even if it did, you'd have Proficiency bonus from WP, and Proficiency bonus from the feat, and those wouldn't stack.

ok, I never would have considered taking the WP feat AND another feat that gives proficiency to try to stack the proficiency bonus from the weapon itself. I would look at it as the bonus doesn't even get the chance to see if it stacks based on type simply because the bonus is not directly provided by a feat or skill it's just if you are proficient in this weapon you get +x to hit with it, and since you can only be proficient, not double proficient, the question of does the proficiency bonus stack with proficiency bonus would never come into play.

And not to you Draco but the other person.
Raw and cs agree that AV superior weapons are granted proficiency by the dwarf and eladrin feats. There is no specific rule that omits those weapons from those feats, and just like the weapon focus feat that works on the entire group, so do those feats as written.