Book of Insanity

[kingius]

"Schizophrenia is somehow society's fault? Not the byproduct of a chemical imbalance in the brain, causing visual and/or auditory hallucinations of non-existent people? I'd make some joke about "I'll have to ask the voices about that", but in context that wouldn't be very funny."

Actually, I'll stand up for him here. You have no doubt heard that some people crack under pressure. Sometimes people crack in permanent ways.

I'd like to expand on his point too; it is entirely possible that schizophrenia might not be a chemical imbalance on the brain, this theory is put forward by atheists who do not believe in the soul or the spirit and therefore must find an external, materialistic explanation for everything with no regard for what the truth of the matter may be. Therefore it follows to consider (by those of us who do believe in the immaterial essences of things) that schizophrenia could well be an external influence rather than an internal one, in a very different way. It could possibly a the result of an invasion by other beings that did not result in complete domination. Even today we hear about murderers claiming voices in their heads told them to commit the most awful crimes; we treat these as being internally sourced, but to the open minded, they might not be. It's impossible to prove either way, like most of these kinds of questions, because only the /material universe/ can actually be measured.

Apart from that though, I pretty much agreed with the rest of your post and do have some sympathy for the original posters point of view, however I do feel that D&D is simply taking the most extreme form(s) of madness as the basis for it's fantasy setting equivalent.

 

[Dozen]

Schizophrenia is somehow society's fault? Not the byproduct of a chemical imbalance in the brain, causing visual and/or auditory hallucinations of non-existent people?

I said 'Schizophrenia is an exception'. That means it's not part of what I was talking about. The theory Kingius presents is interesting, though; it's not impossible, but I hope it's not a mind control byproduct. Freakish!

Sociopathy is still only a problem within a society, as weird as that sounds. Though not only in ours, but pretty much all of them, save for maybe the Abyss of D&D? But again, maybe not even there. If there were literally no expectations of him or is expected to do what he plans to anyway, a sociopath would have an easy time. That happening is a microscopic possibility, but still doesn't make my point less valid.

Most 'disorders' are perfectly normal behaviors taken to abnormal extremes. Normal caution becomes paranoia, when taken to extreme.

Normal mood swings become bipolar, or "Manic/Depressive" when taken to extremes.

Many types of "Dementia", as viewed traditionally, we now know are the result of brain damage caused by certain diseases. I suppose we could call that "society's fault", in that the most common causes were generically labeled as "Social diseases", but that's more an accident of language than anything else, and borders on topics that are off limits on these boards.

Finally something we agree on! Yes, all of these are exactly as you said. People with most personality disorders are also such extremites. Histrionics are attention cravers and can exaggerate to no end, Dependants are extremely clingy, Narcissists are extremely, well, narcissistic, and the list goes on, possibly touching ones that are less obvious like Schizotypal, but maybe we can deduct that later on.

Don't misunderstand though. I'm not trying to blame society. Well, not anymore. There was a now distant time in my life(I refer to it today as my 'Emo Era') when I blamed all of my problems on others and refused to cope with them out of spite. You can guess how that turned out. Now I'm sensible enough to know that while society has made it's own mistakes, I'm still the odd one out even if I don't like it, and going 'waaaah nobody likes me' won't change anything.

Regarding sprint speeds: I never mentioned what that speed was, so I don't know where you got the 20 KPS figure from.

O-kay I guess I've made my share of misunderstandings. So when you said 'IRL, the average Joe can't maintain a top speed sprint for a minute', you didn't mean Run(x4)? Sorry, man. And I was so cocky about it too... Run(x4) with a speed of 30 feet per round is supposedly the equalient of 12 mph or 19-20 kmph, as per the SRD.
But Run(x4) and (x3) the ones you can maintain for a round/Con score without a check, so what's sprint then?

Consider that the Insanity rules may well fall into this category. The very fact that they say, right out, that people suffering from various Insanity conditions are unsuitable to be adventurers is probably a clue on this.

In D&D, PCs are better, hands down, than "normal folk". Better stats, better class options, better spell selections, better hit points, just plan better.

Why are you surprised that they're also better than the abnormal folk? (No offense intended.)

None taken. I'm not saying someone with a PD is any good of an adventurer. I just want a chance. You can play an Adept or a Commoner if you want, and as a DM I can set up appropriate challenges for you to solve. You can still play a Schizophrenic, a Maniac(not that they're any playable as of now)... but not someone with PDs. Why am I worse off than these? Than everyone else? It's just not fair.
Personal issues aside: Saying insanity is unplayable is essentially saying 'an insane person is nonfunctional'(I know you didn't say it, don't point it out). That's not true most of the time, and PCs are supposed to be exceptionally powerful beings, just like you said. With the PC factor, a madman still should be an exceptionally good madman. If the sane PCs are the cream of normal folk, insane PCs should be the cream of abnormal folk. The average crazy person can manage out there; it naturally follows the best and brightest of them manage even better. We could change Insanity in-game to a sort of power damper or handicap instead of a shackle which it definitely is not, so PCs as well as NPCs can have it. I'd say a disorder should nerf any class down a whole tier or two, or impede progress like now, but not so unsolvably. Harsh, but not unplayable by any means.
I tell you what. I'll focus on the game mechanics for now, at least until I aquired enough info. I'll post them here, we balance them, and then playtest them in a campaign where we apply them to NPCs, and to PCs as well, if you got a liking for one. Think that's a viable solution?

 

[Greenfield]

Okay, sorry for the misunderstanding on Schizophrenia.

As for run speeds, yes I was referring to Run as x4 movement, but I was commenting on the endurance factor, not the actual speed achieved.

As per the math I ran at you, a trained runner IRL and a person with the Run feat in game have comparable times in the 100 yard dash. The only difference is that the game character can maintain that speed for a quarter mile +, and a real person can't.

Your comment on Sociopathy only being a problem in society was funny. It's true, though, just as any inability to deal with people is only a problem when there are people around to deal with. Sociopaths make great hermits, I suppose. I've known a few who were good salesmen as well.

Bipolar disorder, also known as Manic-Depressive, isn't an invention/product of society. It's another neuro-chemical imbalance that occurs in cycles. At the high end, the person may think that they're perfect, invincible, and will attempt foolishly dangerous things. And occasionally die in the attempt. When the tides of life turn against such a person, as luck and circumstance dictate, and it happens to coincide with the low end of their cycle, put them on suicide watch.

But the conclusion, that D&D rules say that any PD makes you nonfunctional? No, they just make you unqualified to deal with high stress environments where your split second decisions are a matter of life and death for everyone around you.

Consider the Sociopath: Being a Sociopath doesn't mean you're Dexter. (That calls for sociopathy, homicidal urges, and a good script writer.) There are a lot of sociopaths working on Wall Street and making a fortune. (Seriously, I saw an article on the number of psychopaths in high finance.) They're perfectly functional as human beings. But I wouldn't want to be in a burning building with one. In a life and death emergency, they'll have no hesitation in sacrificing your life to prolong their own.

 

[Dozen]

Amen.

But the conclusion, that D&D rules say that any PD makes you nonfunctional? No, they just make you unqualified to deal with high stress environments where your split second decisions are a matter of life and death for everyone around you.

There is truth behind your words. If I had the opporturnity, I'd choose the normal person for a party member over the abnormal. Mad people are obviously handicapped in the adventure industry. Even so, rules for disorders don't work for PCs(and rather fuzzy for NPCs as well, to be blunt), when you have every right to roleplay whoever you want. I still want to give this book a try at the least before we wrote madmen down. Let us forget the deeper issues and focus on this task until then. This will present the only definite proof or bust of our arguments.

Without further ado, I present my first work.
(Hymn of) Praise required: the Histrionic

Benefits:
- The creature gains +4 untyped bonus to saves against all effects threatening with change of alignment(e.g. the spell Morality Undone or the Helmet of Alignment Change).
- The creature also gains +2 competence bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate and Perform checks.
Drawbacks:
- The creature suffers a -2 competence penalty on saves made to resist morale effects and compulsions.
- If another would criticize/scorn the creature, or fail to live up to her expectations, no matter how minor or irrelevant the faliure, she must pass a DC 5 Wisdom check or her attitude towards her accomplice shifts one step towards hostile.
- The creature is always considered wanting to believe a lie when praised or when being lied to by someone she has an attitude of friendly or better towards(see Table:Bluff Examples in the Player’s Handbook for more information).
- Whenever not in the center of attention, the creature must succeed on a Will Save once per round or be compelled to draw attention to herself at the best of her ability. These actions may or may not be adressing any task at hand, depending on her management. In a social setting, exaggerating or faking emotions, pretending to be miserly or impressive and acting seductively or unusually are fequent tactics. Unless she has a better idea, this is achieved with an impractical, flashy style, bestowing a -2 penalty on all checks and rolls. The DC is 10+1 for every round spent obscurely. This is a compulsion effect and can be relieved with the application of Mertoran Leaf(see Drugs and Sanity, above).
- When the creature explains a matter to another, she must pass a DC 10 Will Save or fail to elucidate her point while she's preoccupied with trying to sound socially pleasing. Moreover, she must throw a Diplomacy check, and all involved must pass a Sense Motive check or mistake her speech for a bold-faced lie, sarcasm or joke(The DC is 20-Diplomacy Check result) and react accordingly. This is a compulsion effect(regarding the creature, of course) and can be relieved with the application of Mertoran Leaf(see Drugs and Sanity, above).
Other:
- All numerical values of morale effects affecting the creature are increased by one-half, rounded in the direction of change(positive up, negative down).
- Whenever an attitude of helpful or better towards another being would matter, the creature must pass a DC 10 Wisdom check or she must view all involved towards whom she has an attitude of friendly as if her attitude was helpful; an attitude of helpful similarly should be regarded as fanatic. Failing or refusing to throw this check does not result in an actual change of attitude; the creature merely views those close to her in a better light she should at the given time.

 

[Greenfield]

You have every right to play whatever you want, that's true. The other players at the table have rights too, however, and that includes the right for them, in character, to refuse to put their lives on the line with someone who will endanger them.

Your character's PC Membership card isn't any bigger than theirs, after all.

That point aside, your write up for histrionic deprives the player of a lot of free will. They're subject to being lead around by the nose and manipulated by anyone with a decent Diplomacy skill, willing to butter them up a bit.

In short, you've made a pet dog.

 

[Dozen]

That point aside, your write up for histrionic deprives the player of a lot of free will. They're subject to being lead around by the nose and manipulated by anyone with a decent Diplomacy skill, willing to butter them up a bit.

In short, you've made a pet dog.

Oof. You are right. Let me change the wording a wee bit(Changes are marked with bold text).

Edit: Nevermind, you are even more right. That rule is stupid. I'll have to figure out something else.

 

[Greenfield]

I've played characters with various "Personality Disorders" in a number of games, and they can be a lot of fun, in the right game under the right circumstances.

But it's a Role Playing thing, not a rules thing. Some people can RP a playable, acceptable level of crazy. Others can't.

So I'd suggest these as guidelines, rather than hard rules.

 

[Dozen]

Proposal accepted.

Also, make note of the new fix above. It fits the symptom it represents(i.e. misjudging level of intimacy) more as well.

Do you have an idea how to represent rash decision making? I'm really stuck with it.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Do you have an idea how to represent rash decision making? I'm really stuck with it.

I know many players who do so without needing any game mechanics.

 

[Dozen]

I know many players who do so without needing any game mechanics.

Heh, damn good point. Optional rule then.