Booming blade - how does it crit, and is this legit?

[jaelis]

So are you saying that you would be able to avoid Booming Blade damage by just roleplaying being scared?

No, and I am confused why you are not understanding the idea. If some external influence forces you to become frightened and move, then you are not moving willingly. If you roleplay becoming frightened and move, then you are moving willingly. If an external influence forces you to become frightened, and you roleplay responding to that fright by moving, then you are moving willingly. The test is: is it your decision as a player to move? If so, then the move is willing. You are your character's will

 

[LudicSavant]

The test is: is it your decision as a player to move? If so, then the move is willing. You are your character's will

The problem is that that's not an in-world test. The player's will and the character's will don't actually have a 1:1 relationship. If it did, you could just decide "hey, I'd rather not be affected by Frightful Presence" (though that's an example of a fear effect that doesn't cause you to move).

Incidentally, the Fear spell works even on a person who is Mind Blanked (unlike the mental control spells like Dominate Person), and is described in such a way that doesn't suggest any mental compulsion (it just presents an illusion of the person's worst fears).

 

[jaelis]

The problem is that that's not an in-world test. The player's will and the character's will don't actually have a 1:1 relationship. If it did, you could just decide "hey, I'd rather not be affected by Frightful Presence" (though that's an example of a fear effect that doesn't cause you to move).

Then I guess I'm saying that when the rules talk about "willing," they are making an out of game reference. Or anyway, that's what JC is saying.

Do you have an alternative way to interpret "willing"? If they player doesn't decide what their character does willingly, who does?

 

[LudicSavant]

Then I guess I'm saying that when the rules talk about "willing," they are making an out of game reference. Or anyway, that's what JC is saying.

Yes, that is my point.

Do you have an alternative way to interpret "willing"? If they player doesn't decide what their character does willingly, who does?

I would use an interpretation similar to the one you yourself posted before JC's tweet was mentioned ("if the target uses their own movement, it triggers BB").

You do not provoke an opportunity attack "when someone or something moves you without using your movement, action, or reaction. For example, you don't provoke an opportunity attack if an explosion hurls you out of a foe's reach or if gravity causes you to fall past an enemy." I would say that this quote from the PHB serves as a functional in-world definition of willing movement, avoiding dissociative elements.

 

[jaelis]

Yes but what about the more general cases? How do you decide if someone is a willing target for a mage armor spell? Can you use charm person to make a creature a willing target for levitation? Can you dominate a creature and force it to accede to a plane shift?

That was my point, that JC is suggesting a more general meaning for willing, where issues of movement are irrelevant.

 

[Caliban]

I think the real problem is not so much Jeremy Crawford's answer, but rather the use of the word "willing" in the cantrip itself. How is a "sheathe of booming energy" supposed to know if you are charmed or otherwise compelled? Is it actually an elemental spirit with an absurdly high Insight skill?

For my home campaign, it will simply not trigger on forced movement (you get pulled/pushed past the barrier before it has a chance to trigger), but if you move under your own power (i.e. spend your movement), then it triggers. Even if you are feared, charmed, or otherwise compelled - just like an Attack of Opportunity.

 

[Gadget]

I think the real problem is not so much Jeremy Crawford's answer, but rather the use of the word "willing" in the cantrip itself. How is a "sheathe of booming energy" supposed to know if you are charmed or otherwise compelled? Is it actually an elemental spirit with an absurdly high Insight skill?

For my home campaign, it will simply not trigger on forced movement (you get pulled/pushed past the barrier before it has a chance to trigger), but if you move under your own power (i.e. spend your movement), then it triggers. Even if you are feared, charmed, or otherwise compelled - just like an Attack of Opportunity.

This seems like the most straightforward and reasonable approach.

 

[iserith]

Hello

Two questions about this spell.

First, is the following "mini combo" legitimate?

With the feat warcaster, you can cast a spell as a reaction instead of attacking as an attack of opportunity. So when an attack of opportunity is triggered by someone moving out of your threatened square, you do this, and boom they take the extra damage for moving automatically. Is this right?

That's probably how I would rule it, for the sake of simplicity.

Second, if the above happens, what gets doubled on a critical hit?

Just the weapon damage I would think since that is what would happen on a casting of this spell without War Caster involved.

Bonus question, aka "the bastard combo".

Booming blade clearly states " the target willingly moves". So you can't booming blade someone then shove them or something to trigger the "if move" damage. The target has to move on their own accord.

BUT

What if you make the target move not by force but by some mental compulsion? Suggestion, or fear? You essentially "hack their will" - they are now willing to move away, and do so on their own...

That would fail to meet my understanding of what "willing" means. Therefore, compulsion to move away from the caster of booming blade would not trigger the damage.

 

[shadowoflameth]

On the willingly moves part, I would let it work unless the effect says 'you move the target.' as opposed to 'the target then uses its move to'

 

[smbakeresq]

I think the real problem is not so much Jeremy Crawford's answer, but rather the use of the word "willing" in the cantrip itself. How is a "sheathe of booming energy" supposed to know if you are charmed or otherwise compelled? Is it actually an elemental spirit with an absurdly high Insight skill?

For my home campaign, it will simply not trigger on forced movement (you get pulled/pushed past the barrier before it has a chance to trigger), but if you move under your own power (i.e. spend your movement), then it triggers. Even if you are feared, charmed, or otherwise compelled - just like an Attack of Opportunity.

Correct way to play it.

Also, how does the target know not to move to avoid damage if it has never seen the spell before? Does it get a tingle as it starts to move, as you lean? What if you spin in your space, you are moving but not laterally or vertically? These are the questions....