D&D 5E Boosting Sorcerers, Focus: Fun (+thread)

[Pauln6]

I think following something similar to the shadow sorcerer is the way to go - granting access to a couple of thematic spells that you can cast at reduced spell point cost.

 

[OB1]

1. At 3rd Level you gain access to all Metamagic options.
2. At 5th Level, pick two Metamagic options to specialize in, the cost of using these Metamagics are reduced by 1 when you use a spell slot to cast the altered spell. You gain an additional Metamagic specialty at 10th and 17th level.

Metamagic is what is fun about being a sorcerer and makes up for the small amount of known spells, let them use it!

 

[GlassJaw]

I agree that leaning into the uniqueness of the sorcerer is the way to go, which is why I wasn't a big fan of spell versitality. The problem with Sorcery Points is that they are used for at least 3 separate purposes: fuel metamagic, gain more spell slots, and power special subclass features (shadow hounds, etc).

More reason to dump it all and go with Spell Points. The sorcerer is screaming for it but again, WotC got cold feet. It's clear it was their original intention - it's in the DMG.

 

[tetrasodium]

More reason to dump it all and go with Spell Points. The sorcerer is screaming for it but again, WotC got cold feet. It's clear it was their original intention - it's in the DMG.

Probably because spells themselves are tuned to slots & it's easy to add up all the lower level slots to justcast your big spells at optimal cost. Yea sorcerer could already do it given some time, but they can only consume & create them so fast in a fight. Having so much spell list overlap between sorcerer wizard & warlock likely complicates things too. Spell points is one of those cool ideas that usually ply out pretty broken at the table. They could probably do it by mixing stuff like the old 3.5 warlock eldritch blast functionality & a flexible spellcasting thing like used in dfrpg but it would absolutely be a new classor maybe 6e.

 

[GlassJaw]

Probably because spells themselves are tuned to slots & it's easy to add up all the lower level slots to justcast your big spells at optimal cost. Yea sorcerer could already do it given some time, but they can only consume & create them so fast in a fight.

Per the DMG, you can only cast spells using a spell slot of levels 6-9 once per long rest each. I would keep that rule since it specifically prevents what you described.

Spell points allow the sorcerer to be exactly what their intent is: a versatile blaster who can modify spells on the fly.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

1) Every sorcerer PC should have their own specific spell list crafted by the DM based upon the Origin or theme. Spells should come from across all the class lists to craft the most applicable spell list for the sorcerer, but only maybe 8-12 spells per spell level. The reason for this of course being that you remove from all sorcerers the exact same spells that appear on every list and invariably get chosen and cast all the time regardless of Origin or theme. It does not good to have a "Storm Sorcerer" that throws fireball after fireball because fireball is the best 3rd level spell in the game.

Yes and, for clarity, I would amend this to "specific spell list crafted by the DM and the player". Much like creating a custom background (which is RAW to involve player and DM), the custom sorcerer spell list should do the same. The DM still has their veto power, of course, but the player at least still feels like they have input in the process and the shared process promotes trust and cooperation at the table right from the start.

{snip}

There's very few things more irritating than someone constantly complaining about rules they don't like or don't think works... but do absolutely nothing to try and fix it for themselves at their table. Instead they just come here onto ENWorld making the exact same complaints that WotC isn't "fixing things" for years on end.

Yep. Big turnoff. And the whole "but I play AL!" is a deflection, IMO. There are so many options right now that are AL legal. Just be creative and work within the system. An/or find a non-AL game to try out the homebrew you really want.

An idea I'm toying with is to allow some if not most metamagics to apply to cantrips for free. With some exceptions (quicken, twin, empower, heighten) applying metamagic to a cantrip for free wouldn't break anything. This would do wonders to reinforce the theme of the sorcerer with potentially every casting.

A more concrete proposal.
From the get go, the sorcerer can add any of these metamagics for free to cantrips:
Subtle
Distant
Extend
Careful
Transmuted

{snip}

Cool idea.

 

[tetrasodium]

Per the DMG, you can only cast spells using a spell slot of levels 6-9 once per long rest each. I would keep that rule since it specifically prevents what you described.

Spell points allow the sorcerer to be exactly what their intent is: a versatile blaster who can modify spells on the fly.

It'smore than that though. Take fireball, it's "deliberately overtuned"

Literally it's a 5th level spell on a 3rd level slot & dmg282/283 confirms that

There's no reason to pop it into a 4t or 5th level slot in a pinch Scorching ray

Scorching ray is a third level spell in a second level slot & lets be honest it's probably a fire dragon sorc adding 3x their 20 charisma mod to damage if they are casting it

I'd be all for making sorcerers into blasters, & suggested looking at the old 3.5 EB functionality for possible versatility but the wizard spells don't work for that because there are a few winner must use spells that eclipse everything else by too much.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

New MM: Ambient Spell. You can cast as a ritual any spell you know that has the ritual tag by spending 1 SP and ten minutes in meditation to gather your power. Each time you use this metamagic before you complete a long rest, its cost increases by 1 SP. After you complete a long rest, the cost returns to 1 SP for the next use of this metamagic.

I wouldn't increase the cost. It's a nerfed ritual casting as it is, not need to make it overly restricted on top of having a cost that no other ritual caster has to pay. At that point, I reckon most people would just not take the MM and instead take Ritual Caster: Wizard.


I'd also propose some other MM options

• Upcast a spell by spending SP at a cost that is lower than the converted cost would normally be. ie, upcast a 1st level spell to 5th level by spending 5 SP.
• Absorb magic into SP that is absorbed by a spell you cast, like absorb elements, counterspell, dispel magic, shield, etc. When you negate or reduce the effect of a spell or magical effect with such a spell, you roll a check and regain SP based on the result, 1/SR or something. Prof bonus per day? Whatever.
• A Divine Smite style effect to replace empower spell, or as an upgrade to it at level 11.
• Create a magical focus item bound to you, can call to your hand as long as on the same plane, yadda yadda, that works as a spellcasting focus, and empowers your cantrips, and x/day lets you act as though you'd spent 1 more SP on an ability than you actually spent. If it's a weapon, you can cast any spell that makes an attack and targets only 1 creature as if it's range where the weapon's range by spending 1 SP.

Also, what about less immediate Advanced Meta Magic options? THings you can do as part of a long rest, and you spend the SP at the end of the long rest?

• So, learning a spell that you've seen used within the last 24 hours. Or even, you can make a check as a reaction when you see a spell used, and can spend x SP at the end of your next long rest to learn that spell.
• Create a thought form that serves you, constructed of your own Will and raw magic.
• Impart some of your power into another character, giving them SP equal to what you spend, that they can use to do a short list of cool things.
• Create a repository of power, which holds SP equal to 1+what you spend, and which lasts until used. (you can only have one, no one else can use it, etc) It takes a short rest to draw power from the repository.
• Recharge or drain a magic item, converting charges into SP or SP into charges.

 

[Vael]

One of the problems is that Twin Spell is so powerful, it warps Sorcerers. I find I really want to take it, which means I am now also picking spells that work well with Twin Spell. So I'm tempted to give some of the less used ones a buff, like a free use per rest, especially for Metamagics like Reach Spell or Careful Spell.

On the topic of unique spells, outside of blasting, can anyone suggest kinds of spells specifically for the Sorcerer spell list? I'm tempted to give them Shadow Evocation/Conjuration, definitely a Dragonshape spell, but what others do people think Sorcerers should get that Wizards and Warlocks should not?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

what others do people think Sorcerers should get that Wizards and Warlocks should not?

Dragons Breath, all the Investiture of XYZ spells, I’m even tempted to say Absorb Elements as much as that would hurt my Bladesinger.