D&D 5E Brawny rogue

[EzekielRaiden]

If you want something purely in 5e rules, then a Shadow Monk or a Fighter that chooses to wear light(er) armor would work. Monk has the benefit that they can get AC from Wisdom, so they don't really need Dex.

The main issue is just...you're almost certainly going to want Dex anyway as a Rogue. You'd need something to sweeten the deal when it comes to Strength in order for it to be worthwhile.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Glad it helps. IMO light weapons should already have been part of Sneak Attack. I mean, come on, a rogue can't sneak attack with a CLUB!?!

Agreed. As a DM, I've always introduced the Sap, a 1hp bludgeoning finesse weapon. But this makes better sense.

I debated about this a lot TBH. At first it was just Intimidation, but for the purposes of grappling and shoving Athletics seemed best. A better compromise might be your choice of either Intimidation or Athletics, gaining double proficiency in your choice?

I think so, yes. YOu always have expertise available if you want both.

I don't see Thugs as normally having a high AC. I debated also about granting proficiency in medium armor, but it didn't feel right.

I agree, Medium armor doesn't feel right. +1 AC doesn't keep you competitive by any means -- you are still going to get hit a lot -- but it might disincentivize a 1-level fighter dip. (perhaps not for many, though). Allowing you to use CON instead of DEX when calculating AC when unarmored or in light armor would be a nice level 9 feature -- too much at level 3, but a relief at 9.

I want the dip not to feel inevitable.

Maybe a feature which would allow the Thug to shrug off a hit and reduce damage? Something like this:

Shrug It Off
Beginning at X level, when you get hit by a critical hit, you can turn it into a normal hit. Once you use this feature, you cannot use it again until you finish a short or long rest.

This is nice -- tidier than the damage mitigation of the Goliath.

If you like Shrug It Off, I am not certain what level you would put it at. Are there any features in my subclass above you would be willing to remove and replace with Shrug It Off?

Shrug it off is good, and could certainly be a level 9 feature.

I don't play campaigns that go high enough for the level 13 and 17 features, so my response to them is more instinctual. Neither would motivate me to stay in the class. I like the Strength save proficiency (and it complements the level 15 Rogue benefit well).

I also like the ability of an intimidation effect. Maybe

Unflappable. Beginning at level x, you can use your reaction to force an attacker to make a wisdom save in order to attack you in melee. Once you use the feature... etc. (what would the DC be? Charisma maybe? It would be fun to start down a dragon, if only for one round.)

It's fun to think about.

 

[Kobold Stew]

The main issue is just...you're almost certainly going to want Dex anyway as a Rogue. You'd need something to sweeten the deal when it comes to Strength in order for it to be worthwhile.

This is the problem with the rogue design, in my opinion. There should be a variety of builds available -- a wisdom rogue, an intelligence rogue, a strength rogue. And since Xanathar they've started to do that, but you still really need a 14 or higher dex.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

This is the problem with the rogue design, in my opinion. There should be a variety of builds available -- a wisdom rogue, an intelligence rogue, a strength rogue. And since Xanathar they've started to do that, but you still really need a 14 or higher dex.

Then you should strongly consider looking over the design for classes in 4e. Because 4e was very good about this specific thing. Every class had at least three stats it valued to one degree or another. For example, Warlocks always valued Charisma, but some also valued Constitution while others valued Intelligence. All Sorcerers also valued Charisma, and some (Dragon and Cosmic) also valued Strength, others also valued Dexterity (Chaos and Storm), and one type even had Constitution as their other prime stat (Elementalist.) Some classes could choose between five stats, mostly those that got a ton of extra support (Wizard and Fighter primarily, but Warlord also got a lot of love on that front.)

Worth noting though, many of the benefits of this sort of thing got baked into the powers, rather than the baseline class features. E.g. 4e's Brutal Scoundrel Rogue "only" gets +Str mod to Sneak Attack damage (alongside all other baseline Rogue features), but has powers that give extra benefits to someone with the Brutal Scoundrel feature, as opposed to Artful Dodger or some of the other "Rogue Talent" features you could choose from at 1st level. The community term for such feature-specific benefits was "riders" on the regular power. Most Brutal Scoundrel-based rider effects added extra damage (equal to Str mod), but some added forced movement or debuffs (reduced AC, susceptibility to Sneak Attack, attack penalties due to you being a scary thug, etc.)

 

[ECMO3]

This is the problem with the rogue design, in my opinion. There should be a variety of builds available -- a wisdom rogue, an intelligence rogue, a strength rogue. And since Xanathar they've started to do that, but you still really need a 14 or higher dex.

If you want to single-class you can always dump dexterity to 8 and pick up heavy armor through feats or a feat and a race.

Also Rogue is pretty SAD as far as classes go, so even with a 14 dex, you still have enough room for 2 really good stats elsewhere.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Barbarian 1/Rogue 1/Barbarian 2/Rogue X

Medium armor, use short swords. Reckless attack for advantage.

(Barbarian unarmored defence is mostly a trap; you need 16 con to make it better than "wear studded leather", and then you need like 18 dex to make it better AC than "wear medium armor". At 16 con/16 dex you match a breastplate with 14 dex; awesome, wow. At 16 con/18 dex you match half-plate (and avoid disadvantage on stealth). Only at 18 con/18 dex does it actually grant increased AC over light armor with lower stats; I mean, at 20 con/14 dex gives you 17 AC, which means you have the same AC as you would have in half-plate; you just don't have stealth disadvantage.)

I have built such a character on dndbeyond for fun.

I agree that you don't usually use unarmored defense, but it comes in handy, when you put on a disguise.

So as a human it is
16 Str
14 Dex
14 Con
8 Int
10 Wis
12 Cha

And a nice feat. Maybe fighting style dual wielder.

 

[Kobold Stew]

If you want to single-class you can always dump dexterity to 8 and pick up heavy armor through feats or a feat and a race.

Also Rogue is pretty SAD as far as classes go, so even with a 14 dex, you still have enough room for 2 really good stats elsewhere.

It's not whether you can; it's the fact that so many rogue abilities key off of dex.

 

[ECMO3]

It's not whether you can; it's the fact that so many rogue abilities key off of dex.

I don't see it.

Evasion is the only Rogue class feature that keys off of dexterity, and that still works well even with a low dexterity. Three skills in the Rogue pool are dexterity too, but Charisma has the most skills in the Rogue pool (4) and after that there are four more in strength, intelligence and wisdom.

When it comes to subclass abilities, Thief and Assassin rely on dexterity, but Arcane Trickster, Mastermind, Inquisitive and Swashbuckler and Scout subclass features primarily trigger off of other abilities.

 

[Kobold Stew]

We're allowed to disagree. I would be interested in seeing any rogue you have played or DMd that didn't have at least a 12 dex.

 

[Stoutstien]

Honesty a str/dex split thief rogue can be a monster. They are disruptive to just about any tactic the enemies can come up with while maintaining a decent damage output.

As for pop culture references just look for any crafty thug. Mix intimidation, stealth, strength, and dirty tricks. Heavy on the "I do have a particular set of skills. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you.." vibe.