Bring back DR/+2????

[Primitive Screwhead]

I like the DR/+2 variant..and have been using it for a while, with each plus negating 5 points of DR.

It does not horribly disfigure the game and makes a +2 weapons better in some circumstances than a +1 Flaming one.

The idea of needing matching bonuses for special effects is..interesting. It would be a good way to keep the 'weird' items from being prevalent. But you would have to recalculate wealth in every published module and some other workload stuff. Personally if I wanted this sort of setting change I would have each plus negate 10 points of DR ...and double all DR listings.

- That would make a striaght plus obviously more valuable than an elemental damage enhancement. It would also make characters that much more dependant on thier equipment bonuses.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Re: DR rule
I like and have written it into my houserules already. Just make sure you include a statement handling creatures with DR. My take on it (from my website):

Damage Reduction/Magic

Rule: DR/Magic works on a scale of 5 points per +1 enhancement bonus. So, a +1 weapon overcomes 5 points of DR/Magic, a +2 weapon overcomes 10 points of DR/Magic, etc. A creature with DR/Magic overcomes a similar amount of DR/Magic. For example, a creature with DR 5/Magic overcomes the DR of another creature with DR 5/Magic entirely, but only 5 points from the DR of another creature with greater than DR 5/Magic.

Change: DR/Magic is otherwise pretty much useless beyond maybe 3rd-level. This is a simple change to make to give more power for DR and to give more credence to higher enhancement bonuses on weapons.

Re: the +1 for +1/+2 for +2 rule
I really don't like it. I don't like the current, scaling implementation either, but this one makes it almost impossible to gain certain enhancements. It also doesn't make sense that I could have a +1 evil outsider bane, flaming, frost, shock, keen, ghost touch longsword, but not a +1 holy longsword.

My idea, when I eventually implement it, is to convert all of the non-enhancement bonus enhancements from market modifiers to static charges. Whether you want to restrict them at that point to a minimum enhancement bonus weapon would be okay, because then the costs would scale exponentially (which is terrible IMO). The same thing goes for armor bonuses.

 

[the Jester]

As far as DR x/magic goes, quite some time ago I reinstated a certain amount of x/+2, x/+3, etc. in my campaign. Some of the more interesting ones could even be, for instance, DR 15/+3 and adamantine.

Most DR x/magic stays at DR x. But enough changes so that the pcs would prolly notice if they all had +1 weapons when fighting mid and high CR monsters.

 

[dante58701]

For damage reduction my house rule is Infinite/+? the question mark being the creatures hit dice divided by ten. Thus no creature is overpowering and a sufficiently enchanted weapon is required to slay certain creatures. Thus no rogue with a lucky sneak attack will wipe out the common demon unless the have the appropriately enchanted weapon. And it puts more emphasis on enchanted weapons being important. Thus, even a +1 weapon becomes a godsend to the common hero. Players appreciate their items more when those items are required for them to survive. It's similar to the AD&D rules without being a complete rip off.
Just think, dragons immune to the common weapons, but slayable by the heros enchanted weapon, quests for enchanted weapons, and spellcasters being suddenly more valuable.

 

[Paraxis]

Thanks for the feedback.
Since so many of you seem to use DR Magic/X I think I will give it a try. As far as the +2/+2 thing I will refrane from using it just yet and see what happens.

As far as the discussion about what is more valuable a +4 weapon or a +1 frost,flame,shock weapon it is all about character using it. Take your standard power attacking greatsword fighter +4 weapon becomes +0 hit/+12 damage with power attack average damage bonus on other is +1+3.5+3.5+3.5=11.5 and when power attacking add 2 so 12.5 not that different and he can sunder more weapons and his own is that much harder to sunder. Plus his damage bonus is not resisted by energy resistance and gets multiplied when he crits.

 

[dante58701]

If you ever try to use the Infinite/+? thing, keep in mind the joy of the players when they finally find that desperately needed magical sword.

 

[Spatzimaus]

I'm on both sides on this one. Most of the previous "magic" DR cutoffs seemed pretty arbitrary.

In a way, I'm glad they've shifted to a two-tier system (/magic and /epic). Now, I do think there's room for a little more distinction; say, for instance, you have /minor (+1 enhancement), /major (+4 enhancement?), and /epic (+6); but I definitely wouldn't go back to the old system for 95% of the enemies out there.

Note that 95% part; there can be enemies out there that do require a specific enhancement. IMC, I had added a template for magically-imbued creatures, with a "scaling" DR depending on the exact enhancement bonus; if it was DR 5/scaling, for instance, it'd reduce nonmagical attacks by 5, +1 weapons by 4, +2 by 3, +3 by 2, and +4 by 1. The beauty of this was that the players didn't feel "golf bagged", where they needed the exact right weapon; a +1 flaming frost sword might still be a better choice than a +3 against that sort of DR (of course, when something big had DR 25/scaling, going 25/20/15/10/5, you really want as much enhancement as possible).
Now, in practice this was a lot like the original suggestion (having higher enhancements reduce DRs), but it only applied to this one creature type, not as a general rule.